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I recently traveled to MENA for the first time (Middle East/North Africa) and holy sh*t the things we take for granted in the West! I've traveled to many developing countries, especially betore covid. And we have come so far as for womens rights compared to the Middle East since theyre like 100 years behind in women's rights, and they don't allow feminism there in a male dominated culture. Its a 'family culture' meaning if you aren't part of a family or have children as a woman, youre seen as a derilect, so being a single CF woman is way easier in the West. I want to list the pros and cons of Middle Eastern culture below for reference:
Cons:
-Gangs of young unemployed men who travel in gangs and have nothing better to do than Leer and catcall women in the streets. A lot of them also made hissing noises at me that sounded like a snake 'Pssss psss pssss' just to get my attention. I had to put on my NY look and just act unfazed and keep walking with purpose
-Men yelling at women if they show any skin and even throwing stones at women because 'muh culture'
-Only males run all the shops and stretch markers ther, barely any women working in businesses so it was uncomfortable shopping and constantly having to bargain with men instead of women to buy sh*t
-Being targeted and seen as 'easy' just for being a white Western woman cause that's the only race I guess they see in p*rn, even though it's hard to access it uncensored in those countries
-Other Muslim women being cold to you thinking you're there to steal their men lmao. You can have those scrotes!
-Being seen as a prostitute for traveling solo and not traveling with a male relative or spouse
-If you don't have children or a husband you're also seen as a wh*re
Pros:
-They don't believe in bf/gf, you're either married or your relationship isn't valid. This means men will commit unlike In the West where men can easily access s*x outside of marriage. Dating doesn't exist in MENA and women arent allowed to date which I think actually helps protect them from men
-Men and women are separated in schools, mosques, and other areas which I think is great and they don't believe in the whole gender inclusive BS like in the West. They believe in equity, not equality between men and women, and believe men and women have different roles. There's no 50/50 BS and men are 100% the provider in the relationship
-They focus on romance a lot more in their music and culture and the society isn't hypersexualized or pornified like the West. The women have some dignity at least and aren't seen as sexual objects as much as here.
-The men will stare and Leer but dare not touch yiu as it's considered against Islam to touch a woman. So in that sense I felt more respected as a woman in the US, where white men will just hug or touch women and not respect them as women
-Overall relationships are taken more seriously and women arent seen as s*x objects to use and discard like how Western men view women due to easier access to s*x
-Women are more protected it felt in general as they're instructed not to talk to male strangers outside of family or their spouse so the men were shocked I even talked to them, but they see you as easy if you talk to them even since Muslim women typically ignore them
-Anti LGBTQ, homosexuality is considered illegal in many ME countries I know I'll get bashed for this one but I don't think it's culturally moral to promote or try to force homosexuality on people like we do in the West. Sodomy is illegal, but they dont prosecute lesbians I heard so gay men are arrested but lesbians aren't. I think this is smart since so many downlow bisexual or secretly gay men murder their wives by sleeping with men behind her back and putting her at risk for contracting HIV.
-It's illegal to have s*x outside marriage (a win for women and forces men to have to commit)
-Takes their belief in God and religion more seriously than in the West where we don't adhere to our religions or faiths we follow or take it as seriously
-Most people even men were hospitable and had me try the street food and free coffee and showed around to some great restaurants and other places and even offered some home cooked food at their house (obviously not going to any strangers house but ok)
-I was told the extreme staring was just because they hardly ever see white women in their country and they think I'm beautiful
Anyway that's that! Overall, I felt more respected as a woman in an Islamic country than I do in the US. These places aren't as 'backward' or regressive as we are brainwashed to believe in the US media that demonizes Islamic cultures. They actually have some intelligent politics like banning sexual degeneracy and alcohol, i wish we did that here. I felt safer and less afraid of being touched or raped, despite the staring by men. The men there definitely have a fear of touching a woman which is great! I'd recommend at least traveling there once since the food, history and overall hospitality is mind blowing and has way more soul than most Western countries. Also the Arabic language is beautiful in both song and writing.
All of the pros are just twisted, warped versions of the truth.
Examples:
They don't believe in bf/gf because they don't believe in individual autonomy, self-control, or romantic love unless it's dictated by Islam's creepy sex rules.
The men will stare but not touch because...they are rude. Not because they're better than non-Muslim men. Because they are rude and creepy. And by the way, they DO touch.
They don't oppress LGBT because they respect women. They hate women. They oppress it because they disrespect all people.
I'd keep going but this post is just a fake post in attempt to get views and farm more people's info. to spam which is what FDS does now.
This post should be titled I Walked around in a Muslim Place One Time and Now I Must Be an Expert.
No woman has ever fled misogynist persecution in America or Belgium, or Australia to seek refuge and a better life in Iran.
Yeah this is trolling. You see it in the way Mol17 respons to critique.
This is the most ignorant thing I've read in a while. Smells a lot like ragebait. Quite clever ragebait.
Don't fall for it.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
As an American woman of East Asian descent, however, I would not feel safe traveling in MENA countries alone. Men in those places despise East Asian women even more than they despise Western women. I'd be served a double whammy of racism and misogyny.
Are you serious? Women aren't seen as sex objects? You think men in MENA don't watch porn or use women as prostitutes? Every middle eastern man I've known has travelled to Morocco to 'pick up a whore' (their words).
You've actually described the madonna/whore dichotomy that characterises the culture of that region very well. But you are gravely mistaken if you think that's great for women or even better than the liberation in the West that we've achieved for women, flawed as it may be.
I can believe the men acted respectfully toward you, that was what you experienced and I appreciate the perspective.
I just want to mention that was because they were in the culture where they would be judged if they crossed the line. Their male-female relationship is like that because they cannot use "what" is still "owned" by another man, may it be the woman's father or her other male family member.
Male ME tourist is amongst the most awful in my country (in SE Asia). They're just like any other passport bros. And they do date women (and sometimes leave her when she got pregnant), watch porn, drink, engage in paid rape, gamble, etc. They didn't (seem to) do that in their own country because there'd be price to pay.
Edit: words
Isn't it legal to ra pe and be at your wife in is lam? In fact, don't they lay out instructions for the latter?
I’m not sure why there is so much rage in these comments. Can we please stop tearing each other apart? We’re supposed to help each other level up. Sad 😔
OP - I lived in MENA for 4 years, I speak Arabic, and I learned the culture & Islam pretty well. I have a few observations to share.
In MENA I always felt safe from violence and theft. There was a real sense of community and family honor that kept public crimes in check. This was a relief from the violence and crime I experience in the US.
I was constantly sexually harassed in the streets, and it really wore me down over time. I dressed appropriately (even in a robe and with head covered at times), and behaved as an “honorable” woman should - but nothing helped. I was catcalled every time I left the house, grabbed and slapped on the butt sometimes too. Men rule the streets, women rule the home, and men are allowed to behave completely chaotically in the streets, in ways they would NEVER do at home among their sisters and mothers. This doesn’t stop male scrotery, it just controls where the scrotery is allowed to happen.
The separation of men and women in the mosque is because “men will have impure thoughts” about women’s bodies while they bend over to pray. Therefore, women MUST hide their bodies to help out the men. This isn’t respect for women - it’s disdain & control of women because men can’t be arsed to behave.
Allah is a Male and promises men 70 perpetual virgins as their eternal reward in the afterlife. Men seriously cannot wait for this reward. What do women have to look forward to? Right - an eternity as a perpetual virgin (so it HURTS and you bleed every damn time!)
Women’s normal bodily functions like menstruation and childbirth, preclude them from praying or fasting - activities that win favor with Allah. So women are always behind. Men have no such limits on when they can pray and fast, so they speed ahead earning points.
Hospitality is a cultural value, and I am not surprised you were so warmly welcomed and treated. I enjoy this part of MENA culture and try to cultivate it in my life as well. Be aware that hospitality also earns people points with Allah, so there are deep reasons for it. I have no hesitation traveling to MENA countries as a solo woman, because I know that this cultural value will protect me as a stranger and guest. I’m not suggesting others do this, but I’ve been invited home and have visited hundreds of MENA families for dinner, tea, etc, and it was a great way to make friends. I wait for an invite from either a woman, or an official man (like my tour guide or concierge, someone with status, and who is working for me). The best food is at home anyway, and that’s where you’ll get to meet women.
Islam is patriarchal and I do not like it. Women cannot inherit property, live alone, or appear in public unless they abide by all kinds of rules of behavior and dress. The West is also patriarchal and I don’t like it either. I will give zero blanket endorsement for either, as most of the world is hostile to women, and seeks to control them.
Pickmes abound in MENA, with added pressure from the belief that “Allah says so.” The misogyny runs deep.
Rape is common in MENA, as it is anywhere men are in charge of society. Married men expect sex on demand from their wives, and forceful sex on the wedding night is expected, to show evidence of the bloody blanket to the family. Many “nonvirgins” who are engaged, have their vaginas sewn to ensure there will be blood at the honeymoon. Marital rape is legal. Women cannot work outside the home without their husband or father’s permission, and girls are often pulled out of school once they begin to menstruate - as the risk of rape/sexual contact is so pervasive. A woman in public is seen as suspect - or at risk. She must cover her body and hair just to pass through unaccosted. Men are dangerous, but women are blamed for the danger. It’s a horrific catch 22. Also, studies show that the majority of rapes happen among family members and acquaintances (not strangers), so little girls and women are always at risk - in their own homes. Oh, and if she is raped, it destroys her Value and the Family Honor - because literally all she is, is a vagina for her future husband. No acknowledgement of the rape as a trauma to HER or violation of her as a human being. And the victim is blamed, just as in the West
TLDR: while there are some good things about MENA culture, it is still a controlling, anti-woman patriarchy. As a feminist, I don’t recommend embracing Islam. As a tourist, there are many amazing and beautiful places to visit, and many lovely people.
I love seeing yet another fds post devolve into personal attacks. /s
I also love honor kil lings.
Also /s
My prof studied in Egypt for a few years and she told me that she had to be accompanied by a man in public, and even then she had to cover herself and wear a head covering. It was such a pain lol
I don't think you're a troll because I can actually view your profile and posts. There are other members on the site who make posts constantly, and I can't even view their profiles.
However, this is a forum, and you're going to get women who agree with you and disagree with you.
Lol. Oh, you silly, silly twat.
Throwing stones? This post is very racist, as a middle eastern I have never seen or witnessed the above. Go to hell honestly with your lies. Throwing religion instead of the issue which is men. Religion doesn’t kill people, men do.
Now everyone is going to say I never went there and it's all fake and cropped ha. The trolls wanted proof here it is in Jordan.