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Hi sisters,
I have a lot of male friends who can't seem to find a stable relationship, and others who can't seem to get into one at all. I am going to share with you some of the wisdom I've gathered from discussing some FDS notions with them as I find it very interesting how combative they are despite their "I have tried it all" attitude.
Friend #1 'Kermit'. Kermit is a man who falls in love fast, dated several women but nothing stuck. He is tall, handsome, smart and has a good job and education. He has been living on his own since he started working. Despite this, Kermit is still single. He broke up with a pick-me not long ago and is constantly chasing after women who are not interested in him.
Kermit's reaction to FDS notions is that it's manipulative and he doesn't agree that men should always pay. I asked him if he paid for the first date at least and he said it depends on who is faster to get the wallet. Kermit will also immediately have sex with his dates, and somehow he always manages to get it. He loves to brag about making the sex all about the women, but even after I told him he should wait until he's in a relationship before getting intimate, Kermit will still have sex in the second/third date and it all goes downhill from there. I told Kermit he should be a gentleman, always refill drinks, move chairs, and show he can be the one for his dates (and to be honest, he does put some effort in the ones he goes and is very romantic) and while he seemed put off by the whole men should always pay and the whole 'manipulation' (like women not pursuing/showing themselves distant and etc) agreed with the overall terms of the FDS and said he would take some of the tips with him for his next dates.
Friend #2 'Rover' is a virgin who has never dated before despite being in his 30's. He has a bad job, no confidence in himself, and was the most combative to the FDS insights I've shared with him. Rover still lives with his parents and has no plans to move out (this is normalized in my country). Rover does not agree that men should always pay, and that while he 'doesn't mind paying' that he would at least like for the women to show intentions of paying her part. Being a gentleman (e.g. filling the glass, pulling the chair, offering the woman a ride to the date) was clearly something that never crossed his mind. As was planning a date all by himself. Rover showed me his tinder/bumble chats and he is as low effort as it comes ('hi how are you?'). He also admitted he just swipes right to everything. I suggested he doesn't do that and for him to search for something in the girl's profile that shows he is interested in her specifically, but even that seemed like a foreign concept to him. Rover entertains conversations with foreign women who are obviously only interested in finding any man to stay in the country with - these always have some kind of weird drama going on in their lives and he doesn't find anything weird in the complicated life stories he's fed in the first conversations they have. But even these women will end up ghosting him. Rover doesn't accept any advice and it's obvious he doesn't want to change. He went on a long rant about why FDS is wrong, and when I asked him 'don't you think you should see this as a cheatsheet I just gave you that could help you?' and his answer was something like him not being the problem.
I just thought it was two interesting perspectives from two very different men. I feel like I'm studying gorillas or something.
You shouldn't teach FDS to men. It defeats the whole purpose and it's also kind of dangerous, considering that there's already been a mass shooter who was a FDS hater. If you wanna do social experiments like these, just give FDS inspired advice to your friends without mentioning FDS.
First, don't have male 'friends'. They are not your friends. Do you really think if you offered to sleep with them, no string attached, they would turn it down? Do you really think these scrotes are against porn, which should be the barest of minimum to even interact with a woman who respects herself? Yeah.
Second, don't educate men, 'friends' or not. You are not getting paid for it, you don't benefit from it. Your only job is to sit back and judge the fuck out of their actions. Raise your standards and let them prove themselves. Never offer help.
Third, please let us ALL stop trying to frame FDS as also benefiting men. That's libfem BULLSHIT. FDS is for the benefit of WOMEN FULL STOP. We all know that if the whole culture followed FDS, males as a whole would have MUCH, MUCH less sex and the vast majority of them would stay an incel. Not just the current basement-dwelling losers, but so many that currently have a lot of success with pickmes. A scrote who tries being a "gentleman" as a tactic to maximize his chances of sex is, guess what, STILL A LVM SCROTE. So please divest from the fantasy that FDS is somehow for the betterment of men instead of the benefit of women.
There's SO much leveling up to do here...
Sounds like their perspectives could be summed up as, "I don't want to treat women well"
I don't even have any male friends anymore because of learning just how they think of women and how they have no empathy for women. And also finding Princella! But yeah all my male friends have did me dirty at some point dogged me out or tried to sleep with me!
Looks like you wasted some time.
Well, their lack of concern towards women seems unbelievable in the beginning and I'm sure that a lot of us have tried talking sense into them but 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
They don't care about improving. They are like kids who just want to take and not give.
I agree with not teaching men these things, but aside from that -- judging from your other recent posts, @QuackBaby, I'd say it's possible that you're still a little too early on the FDS journey to be instructing ANYone on these things. I don't want to sound mean or like I'm acting all superior and farther along on the road, but you do sound a little like you're trying to learn the validity of these precepts by explaining them to someone else.
I cant stand men like rover, and unfortunatly I think this is most men. Specifically, the way he considers any and all women to be potential dates. He doesnt give a shit about women as individuals with personalities and all that. He doesnt want to find a great lady who's fun to be with and has compatible life goals. He just wants a warm female body, any body, that will remain in his presence. Women are interchangeable, and the mere fact that you have a personality at all, good or bad, is frankly an inconvenience to rover.
Rover's approach to dating is to get a first date, then get subsequent dates. He isnt going out with you to get to know you and find out if the 2 of you are compatible. He's going out with you to be in the presence of a warm female body, and to try to ensure future proximity to a female body.
This kind of man will lie and manipulate to fool you into thinking he's the kind of man you want to see again. What he wont do is BE the kind of man you want to see again. He WILL pretend to love your favorite TV show. He WONT pay for the date. He WILL lie about having a bad relationship with his family. He WONT call his mom on her birthday. He WILL lie and say he's trying hard to get healthy. He WONT go to the gym.
This kind of man is the lowest of value. Your great pwrsonality will be wasted on the pathetic, misogynistic blandness of this man.
Stay away from rover. And dont try to polish this turd so that he might get better at fooling women into wasting their time with him.
The only lesson I see here is that you learned fully that your male friends are total scrotes and you should drop them.
Are you running a charity or just this desperate for friends? Why would you waste your time and breath on such creatures? Standards count for friendships, too. Good god.
Going through labor alone should be enough compensation. Tf?
I don't talk about FDS to men. It is secret women's business.
Honestly they just sound lv and you can't make a person into hv. I only have two male friends one being a work friend. Both treat women very well and have a fds mindset despite not even knowing what fds. The rest of the men I thought were my friends I've cut loose because I realized they were never really friends.
You are not Barbara the builder or paid dating coach. Don't do this, sis and listen to your sisters here.
i've tried talking about FDS to a male friend who i consider medium value at most. just to give you the picture: i think he is a great guy, but he's not very masculine, an introvert who is quite shy and who deosn't agree that men should pay for dates or be the providers. the only reason i've tried talking to him about FDS is because i genuinely thought he would listen, since we have been friends for a decade and he usually listens to me when it comes to feminism. he's been single for decades and wants a commited relationship based on true connection (definitely not the type of guy who would have sex early, he really needs to like the person and won't fall in love easily either). he is the only male friend i have and to be honest, he is better than all my female friends. he agrees with most of my feminist views more than my female friends.
despite all that, my conversations with him were fruitless. i wasn't trying to teach him how to find a girlfriend, i just wanted to make him think about things and maybe understand us a little better. but men can't understand our perspective. men like this friend of mine believe equality is a real possibility (we all know biology makes it impossible) and instead of trying to offer some kind of historical reparation or compensasion, they focus on "women and men should do the same things and have the same rights" - they completely forget that there are very obvious things we need to do/face/experience that they can't! they think the only thing that makes women vunerable to opression under the patriarchy are socially constructed. HELLO!?!? WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT OUR OPRESSION IS LITERALLY BASED ON OUR REPRODUCTIVE BIOLOGY?????
TL, DR: don't waste your time and energy trying to get men to have empathy to women, no matter how good the guy seems to be, no matter how well intentioned he is. it won't work.
Apart from sharing FDS, please don't share it but, Jobs and looks aren't the problem, it's that they both need THERAPY. The inability to bond or figuring out why they're not going far in dates is something they could fix with therapy but they either choose not to or don't think it's a problem. Which isn't your problem to fix! FDS can't help you with gaining insights on how one bonds with people, how one was conditioned as a child, etc. A lot of men believe they will be successful if they sleep around with women - they either find out early or late that it's all fake. They and A LOT of men haven't done anything to really dig deep and find what they want. Men don't need dating guides they need self reflection.