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I'm certain from the title alone most of you know exactly what I mean--but I'll elaborate anyway...I am referring to when a male acquaintance, co-worker, or fellow student who you have spent some time with because you're always in the same places because of university or work or other friends, one day decides to send you and only you a message...."hey, I know this [blank] restaurant Or "[blank activity]" do you want to go? It's very clearly not a group activity, you're pretty sure he's single, and you think he thinks you're single too, but he didn't explicitly say he wanted to take you on a date or he was interested in you romantically.
Now you don't want to be rude to your friend or co-worker or colleague, and you don't want to directly clarify either because he will 100% deny it and then it makes you look like the odd/presumptuous one, and you also don't really want to accept because this is giving him more access to you you don't want to give and an opportunity to push the envelope further vis a vis emotional intimacy and dragging you into some kind of entanglement.
I ✨hate✨ men who do this. It's happen to me maybe about four times...twice at university and twice as a working adult. Based on my experiences, the men who do this have some degree of emotional intelligence, but they aren't particularly attractive, and they know it. So instead of being straightforward and confident in asking for a date, they opt for this manipulative, ego-protecting path of asking you out-but not really asking you out so if you say no, you didn't really reject them, and if you say yes, they think they have the go-ahead to start herding you towards a relationship/getting all up in your business/all with plausible deniability of just being your "friend" if something doesn't go their way (or so they can avoid paying the check smh)--but they'd jump into bed with you in a nanosecond if the opportunity presents itself.
I've said no all four times, number one because I was very put off by the manipulative angle, number two because I was viscerally UN-attracted to them, and number three, in at least one case, because I really did have other plans but it was extremely uncomfortable each time. And it's kind of awkward if you have to see each other on a regular basis after that because of the sea of ambiguity and mistrust they've just made.
Anyway...just needed to get that off my chest. Ugh....
When I was young I got fooled by this a few times —it‘s usually ugly men, socially awkward men, or men that are too old. These men are absolute cowards, but think they are slick manipulators. They are like the predators who try to isolate a “weak” member of an animal herd so they can eat them. Ew.
If you confront them, they’ll deny and things get really ugly. If you say yes, you’re in for a really creepy uncomfortable time and it will embolden him to try more manipulation and then he feels entitled to you because you said yes and then things get really ugly.
The only safe option is turning them down (but not in person). “I’m busy”, “no thanks”, “no, I don’t want to”. I would block if it’s not a coworker, classmate, or an enmeshed member of my social circle.
They do this because it's also a way to bypass the vetting that typically comes with dating. By pretending that it's a friendly hangout, they can get away with cheap coffee dates and splitting the bill while still getting to spend time with you alone. When I was in grad school, I refused to get coffee with my male classmates off campus because so many of them would try to do this. I grabbed coffee with this guy one time, and immediately after he suggested that we hang out again and that *I* pick a restaurant for us. It sucked to not be able to network comfortably with my peers and future colleagues, but I happily stuck to networking with other women.
Men are always going to manipulate ambiguity in their favor. If you say yes to hanging out with them alone, even as friends, they're going to use it as an opportunity to be inappropriately affectionate and get close to you. But then if you politely clarify that you see them as a friend, they do a complete 180 and accuse you of being delusional and self-important for even thinking that they were interested in you. That or they'll tell everyone that you were leading them on.
Or even worse, maybe you start hanging out with one another regularly and you start to feel like you two might have a special relationship. Then one day you discover that they're also "hanging out" with another woman, or they straight up just start dating someone else out of the blue. And again, they'll act like you got the wrong idea and that they never owed you anything. There is just no way for the woman to win.
They do it because they want to ask you out, but want an out in case you reject him. Basically, he will just say "so pretentious, I wasn't even asking her out, I just wanted to be friendly!"
Totally know what you're talking about. In fact, one of my classmates has tried this with me twice in the past month alone, both via social media. The first time he wrote, "we should get together soon and share a bottle of wine!" Does he really think I would do that with him?? I barely know him. To me, this screams that he just wants to get me drunk and have sex with me. The second time, he just said "hey! What are you up to tonight?" Also, rude. As if I would drop everything I might have already had planned just to see him? Nope! This guy is bald and fat!!! Yes we have common interests since we are working towards a similar masters degree, but that's simply won't cut it if I'm not physically attracted as well! Plus, the roundabout ways of asking me out are a huge turn off! I left him on read both times!!
You hit the nail on the head. This has been my experience as well. Men want a cheap and easy way out, whilst looking for cheap and easy sex. I call it him putting you in "the gray zone" he will have you thinking you're friends and try to get somewhat comfortable so he can push your boundaries and try to get more.
Pickmes will be scrambling to their friends and advice columns wondering "does he like me? Is that hangout actually a date?"
If he wanted to he would. A man that's actually interested wont have you wondering about anything. You'll know it's a date and won't have any doubt about how he
Dumb fox it.
"Do you want to go to the restaurant?" Sure.
"Ok. Pick you up (example) tomorrow at 8?" Why would you be picking me up?
"To go to the restaurant?" Why are we going to the restaurant?
"To try it out?" Why would we go to a restaurant alone together to try it out?
Same logic as asking a kindergartener's rationale on their actions. Make him admit he's just mooching your time and looks while he rolls the dice trying his luck escalating physically. And THEN decline with prejudice
Ugh can I just say that I hate this "we should totally hang out sometime!" / "we need to catch up soon" phenomenon in general? It's not just men, people generally seem so reluctant to make actual plans. I know it's supposed to be polite and/or protect against rejection, but I still don't like it. I always feel messed with.
This happened to me once before and I accepted. Then when I was like "wait is this a date?" he was like "yeah obviously" and I was like "oh uh I thought you just wanted to hang out" and rejected him. He was so pissed about that but it's like you literally brought this on yourself??
At one of my old jobs a male co-worker was in the break room asking the ladies for advice. He said he was interested in a lady from a class he was taking and that he wanted to figure out how to let her know.
i said “just ask her on a date?” And the other two ladies in there both nodded sorta like “duh”
he then explained his plan to tell her he was going to the farmers market after class and asking if she would like to come along.
one lady said “but why?”
he said then she can’t just decide on the spot that she is not interested, he would get her to like him that way “without the romantic pressures of a date” and another lady in the room said “yea that’s not gonna work, the farmers market isn’t romantic at all it’s the opposite of a date” and I said “yea she already knows if she likes you or not”and he then just repeated his rationale.
three women had just made it very clear that his manipulative tactic isn’t what women want (in kinder words) and he still didn’t listen!
he did later report to us that she had rejected him for the farmers market walk. we laughed at him amongst ourselves for months after.
Yes I’ve had this before and it’s annoying. We’re all adults, grow some balls and ask me out properly! All of your explanations are spot on for why they do it, and that’s exactly why we need to say no or challenge them to ask properly.
I hate this with every fiber in my body. I was fooled by this many a time when I was young and naive. Unfortunately my younger coworker is going through this right now. A guy at work asked her in person to “hang out” and she said yes, thinking it was innocent. Well the next day they’re texting about what they should do and he sneakily morphs it into a “date“ and offers to cook her dinner at his place after they go for a walk. The fucking audacity…
Thank you so much for writing about this because I can relate!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one that despises this nonsense that a lot of men do!!! Like you, I've long felt that men who do this are sneaky, manipulative and seriously lacking in confidence. I've always found it annoying and very unattractive when they play this game of showing sexual interest (not real, genuine interest seeing as most men are LV and only after sex) that isn't shown fully, just in case the woman rejects them. I prefer a man to just ask me out without hesitation. Even if I say no, be confident with it at least.
I've also experienced guys playing this stupid game and then when I've said that I'm not interested, they pretend that they meant for us to hang out platonically, making me look presumptuous and like I was the one interested in them! It's very annoying. One guy I met at a students' union party at uni, took my number then asked for us to hang out twice. I eventually agreed to watch a movie with him and after that, I just felt that there was nothing there. The next time he asked to watch a movie, I said that I'd come but I wanted us to be friends. This guy proceeded to act shocked and tell me that we were always going to hang out as friends. He couldn't understand why I thought he wanted more than friendship......which is interesting because he was flirting with and complimenting me when we met and when we watched the movie yet suddenly, he just wanted us to be the best of pals. 🙄
Like so many ladies have said, a lot of men do this because they fear being rejected because they know that the woman they're asking is likely to say no, to which I ask: why ask her out in the first place!? And men say that they are the logical ones.
Not every guy who does this is not attractive; attractive guys who like to play mind games and confuse women or the ones that lack confidence do this too.
Men who do this give me the ick. It's such an off-putting trait.
Leave messages like that on delivered.
If anyone presses you about it later, “I don’t date coworkers.”
A fun way to respond to this is saying “I have a date that night” or if he is like sometime this week say “I have a few dates actually that I’m going on that week, i only have so much capacity for man-energy in a week”
that got one scrote to stop asking for “hangouts“ from me and made it seem like I was in high demand for actual dates, and I can only hope it made him feel bad for even asking.
When I was in my 20s, I had been hanging out with my roommates friend (now my ex) and we had only talked and texted and hung out at my apartment - never went on a date or anything. One evening he’s sitting outside on the balcony with my roommate with the patio door left open, and shouts to me (inside), “hey, how do I put this shit on Facebook?” I replied, “huh?” And he mumbles back “you and me, ya know?”
I was so caught off guard and still in the naive “he’s CUTE” smitten phase that I showed him how to change his relationship status, which he did right away. The very next day he comes over after work as we’d planned, but brings with him a HUGE duffel bag. He walked straight into my bedroom (the master), through my bathroom, into my closet, and started unpacking CLOTHES and TOILETRIES and his STUFF. I blinked once and we were in a relationship, blinked again and we lived together. It took me 6 years and a house fire to finally get away from him. Fuck the state ambiguity about "common law marriage” rights, fuck my neighbors, and fuck my ex whose rotting in jail now. I left the state. Been single and free since for few years now and just had the best Valentine’s Day ever today, just myself and my kitties 🐈⬛🐈⬛ that fire turned out to be a blessing in an epic disguise!
But yeah. He never asked me out lol. Fucking psycho!
p.s. I’m new here so please let me know if this isn’t okay to share here! THANKS FOR THIS GROUP QUEENS
I had this same thing happen to me. A fellow student asked me to “study” with him (one on one) and I very sweetly said no, but why don’t we get a group together and study? He was pissed, and has since been a thorn in my side, constantly disagreeing with what I say and doing everything he can to be antagonistic. In retrospect I should have said - maybe, instead of no. And then never followed up, or keep on making excuses. In this case the guy was very handsome, and my age. It really depends on the situation, but with my case I should have left some hope, from a strategic standpoint. I also understand that saying no is sometimes necessary as well, just food for thought.
I wish I knew this 2 years ago, I thought it's just normal way of asking someone out.
I'm glad you wrote about this. It's handbook material IMO. And even if you fancy the man, this type of thing sets up a precedent for low effort dates, house dates, and/or 50-50 if you do go on a nice date. Yuck.