Reaux Vs. Roe Vs. Wade (FDS PODCAST EP. 70)

The narrative that is getting tiring is this idea that abortion is a stressful decision to make, that haunts the woman for the rest of her life. I’m middle age, I’ve had abortions and so did ALL of my close girlfriends. We all were relived to not be pregnant, after the abortion. The stress involved with unwanted pregnancy, is the bullshit you have to go through to get one. Because it’s typically self pay, there’s no reason for delay by forcing women through counseling. I was so annoyed by being interviewed so another person, that wasn’t me, could give the nod to my emotional stability. Then you have to come up with the money, take off of work, walk past protesters, and sit in a room waiting in what’s feels like forced shame. I just wanted to get in and out, and not be pregnant. I always felt guilty for not feeling guilty. Abortion is birth control. The guilt and shame attached to abortion, is a result of being inundated by anti-abortion/anti choice talking points, and this idea that we’re killing babies. I feel like pro choice folks we’re trying to get the anti choice folks to meet them in the middle by conceding that it’s a difficult decision to make, so they’d have some empathy for the woman’s life over a potential baby’s life. Perhaps a way to be get the anti choice folks to be fair. There are times where choosing an abortion is a difficult decision to make, such as a wanted pregnancy that is a threat to the mothers life. That’s not the majority of abortions. The majority of abortions are performed on women who knew before they got pregnant that if they got pregnant, that they were headed to the clinic. There’s also this narrative that if you’re using abortion as your only form of BC that you’re a irresponsible slut, who deserves shame. Personally, that’s just not feasible for me, but who am I to say what type of BC women use. It’s none of my business. Bodily autonomy full stop. Again, these narratives feed into this idea that at the end of the day, abortion is the termination of precious life. I don’t agree. As a Jew, until it takes a breath, it’s not a human life, and abortion is simply a medical procedure necessary for women to have control over who they let have access to their body and livelihood. Abortion needs to be normalized as an acceptable form of birth control, and I wish we’d stop feeding into anti choice talking points.

I just finished this episode, and I have to say that I *do not* appreciate being lectured throughout the entire episode that I am once again supposed to "reach out" to conservative women. Quite literally, a prominent media narrative for the last 10ish years is that liberals are in a bubble and need to reach out to conservatives, that conservatives just don't understand, that we just need to connect with them, and on and on. Guess what? It hasn't worked. It's not going to work. Women who vote Republican know exactly what they are doing. They are aligning with the only power they know - men. Their fathers, their brothers, their husbands, their sons. Conservative women can be very dangerous pickmes and if you live in a red state, talking to them about abortion rights can be very dangerous for you. Some conservative women also believe that women's purpose is to suffer (through pregnancy including death, through bad marriages, through sexual harrassment/assault), so these abortion stories will not affect them. They do not care.

Here's the thing. The majority of Americans do support abortion rights. We already have hearts and minds on our side.

Here's the other thing. Dems hold the US House, and can keep it in the November 2022 election. Dems hold the US Senate barely, but most definitely can pick up 2 more seats *if we work and support those candidates*. Then Machinema will be irrelevant and we can codify abortion rights and do lots of other truly "pro-life" things that will help everyone in this country live better lives. (If we can get the Senate in 2022, we will really only have 2 years to get these things done. 2024 is a tossup.)

I know that Dems are feckless. So, we have to push them, through media, though calling their offices, through protests, through amplifying voices in the Dem party that actually want to fight for our rights. We cannot let them back down. Biden is under criticism for his lackluster response. Keep criticizing until he buckles.

Do not waste your time with conservative women. (The only exception would be young women in college who are open to hearing other points of view, like Savannah said she experienced. After college, their views are pretty much set. And their views are pretty much set if they attend some wackadoodle college like Hillsdale or Liberty U.) The best "outreach" to conservatives is good policy that improves people's lives. We will have the power to do this if we get the Senate. Obamacare is the perfect example. Conservatives hated it, until they realized that it improved their lives, and now it's here for good (and yes, it's not even close to good enough).

We haven't lost the information war. Dems have just lost the desire to exert the power they have. Part of it is because media really beats up on Dems, so we need to just keep telling media to f off when they pull that "both sides" crap. The other part is we can't just get them elected and then ignore them. We have to hold their feet to the fire.

I do agree that we need a strong counternarrative that does not involve libfem ideas. One narrative to promote is that men need to be held accountable for where they put their sperm. Men's desire for PiV should not be prioritized over women's health and safety. Another narrative is directly and frequently criticizing the corn industry. (Notice how Rs rarely talk about that anti-family industry!) Conservative women will agree with both of these, I think. (Can you imagine the response from conservative women's magazines if feminists came out again corn?)

This is 100% about power. Our country would look so much different if Dems hadn't been feckless with their power for the last 15 years. It's time for us to stop "communicating" and start strategizing using FDS principles on a movement wide scale.

PS: Please stop using "pro-life". They are forced birthers. If you want to change the narrative, you can't use their language (and we all know that they aren't pro-life). AWFBs (anti-women forced birthers)

I feel like Conservative women might be convinced if the need for medical abortion is highlighted (e.g. babies who have developed without life-sustaining organs). Anti-abortion women make me think of the women who carry out FGM on other women.

It's sad that some people think they need the 'risk of pregnancy' as a reason to say no to men who push for sex. NO, you don't need a reason! We need to normalise women having boundaries.

I’m so sick of hearing about states rights. It’s such a gaslight, like states rights over my human rights??? NO. We shouldn’t be voting on this in the first place, that’s what these jerks fail to comprehend, on purpose.

One last thing that I didn't want to include in my other comment because it was already too long.

I just finished a book called Divided We Stand: The Battle Over Women's Rights and Family Values That Polarized American Politics. Basically, it was the battle over the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) the prompted Phyllis Schlafly to organize a group of conservative women to oppose the ERA. They succeeded in their efforts because, even with the ERA being recently ratified by the last state needed, it still hasn't been added to the Constitution. *This* is something that needs to be done asap.

I originally read the book to see if conservative women had some kind of unique and effective organizing technique that made them successful. As it turns out, no. They just had so many men on their side.

I did realize just how much the concept of women's equal rights radicalized men and ushered in the "government is the problem" Reagan era. The ERA and the International Women's Year state conferences (IWY) were the turning point.

Before the Reagan era, women's rights was a bi-partisan issue. There were lots of Republican women who were feminists. But during and after Reagan, the parties sorted, with Republicans focusing "pro-family" values (as if women's rights are in opposition to families), and Democrats becoming the women's rights party (even though they haven't delivered much to that goal). Some Republican women were alarmed and tried to get the Republican party to backtrack on that, with no luck (obviously).

My point is there is a very real history of betraying women here, starting with Schlafly and her hunger for power. Conservatives have broken the US in two partly because they don't want women to have equal rights, and they relentlessly pursue that goal. That is a betrayal. Everyone in the US lives a poorer life because of it. (What was that meme going around? Conservatives will burn down their house just so a liberal will smell smoke.)

I have 0 interest in reaching out to forced birthers. It's to the point where I think they should face the consequences of their vote. Especially since there are many forced birthers who get abortions and feel like they're somehow exempt. They need to figure out how to deal with the increased violence towards women, overloaded foster care system, increased poverty & child abuse, etc. I prefer the idea of women just leaving the communities. And if they can't afford to, it's important that the people in the blue states assist. Honestly if people weren't so evil and shitty to kids, they should make FBs adopt every unwanted kid. Orrr make them donate 20% of their income to a single mother. Instead of tracking down women that might have had an abortion, maybe they need to put trackers on deadbeats that try to skip town. Make them do hard labor so they can pay child support. I do feel bad for women that felt pressured to get an abortion but likeeee what does that have to do with the rest of us ? Having the baby isn't going to force your man to act right and he won't be ostracized for abandoning the child. They'll still blame you.

On the note of reaching across the aisle, as exhausting as it is I think it is important. I plan to make a longer post detailing exactly what I said to my republican parents (abortion is THE wedge issue for my dad, now that roe v wade is overturned and we live in a trigger ban state, he's unregistered his vote and removed himself and my mother from republican party support). What's important is being clear and concise about the series of decisions which lead up to women getting an abortion. These people don't care about the experiences women go through, but they care when:

-their daughters get abortions because she couldn't afford her birth control (me)

-when the men they're dating/living with/married to had removed her body autonomy aka her ability to say no to sex (me)

-when their daughters don't trust their parents to tell them about being abused (me)

-when their daughters don't trust their parents to support her when she's pregnant (me)

-when their daughters are being punished by their company and their church for being pregnant and unwed (my sister)

-When their daughters are alienated from the community for being unwed mothers (my sister)

-when their daughter's company refuses to cover birth control through health insurance (my sister)

The pedophiles and rapist on the sides of the Democrats and Republicans when an influx of unwanted children can't find homes or their place in foster homes:

I hate hate hate the women that think their personal choices should influence other women. I don’t think I’d ever have had an abortion (even when I was raped I nervously waited for my period because I’d have kept the child). That’s on me and my thought process. The idea of being so arrogant as to think my views are somehow universal makes me sick.

I had to laugh on “ending abortion will end hooking up culture”. Babe, I am from a country where abortion is prohibited - the woman can literally go to jail if she ends up at the hospital due to complications of an abortion and guess what?? Hook up culture has been on fireeee for the last 10+ years

PS. Podcast ladies!! 10,000 is not enough to pay ya’ll a full time salary!! Ya’ll need to be getting paid AT LEAST $1000 for the week, which is 12k for the 3 of you, for the month - then add whatever else is needed. So, 20k seems like a better goal! C’mon FDS, let’s make this happen!!! Tell those HVM to open their wallets and put their $$ where their mouth is. Lol. I kid, but am also v serious!

To add one more comment about strategy: I attended a local feminist group meeting today. I brought up one issue during the open speaking time and there was a lot of "well, we can't get them to care" "they don't care about women" "we are just a small group", etc.

There was no discussion or understanding of power. They had no understanding that it's not about getting someone in power to like women. It's about holding people in power accountable for upholding the laws - through publicity, public pressure and countervailing power.

It was very disappointing. This seems to be the state of the feminist movement. I understand now why I wasn't really interested in feminism before, while supporting all their goals. (I was never anti-feminist) It was just a bunch of talking and then asking for donations.

Hopefully this will change, or we are in for a long time of being 2nd class citizens.

I'm a bit disappointed in the narrative that women should just leave the states that are restricting their rights. Unfortunately, due to the way the Senate works, those states will continue to be voted red (and with fewer women, even more extremist) and continue to hold a majority. There are just more "red" states now. You have to mobilize in those states to change laws and protect rights for everyone at a federal level.

This is why it's important to listen and offer compassion in order to reach those conservative women. It's not about telling them their opinion is right, but trying to understand why they feel that way and reach them through understanding what is important to them (I think Reaux touched on this point). Most people aren't lost causes. The US is not the first place to have polarized politics (nor is polarization even a "new" issue in the US). And honestly, most of those politicians aren't even that polarized behind closed doors. I know this because I actually have been in private meetings with congressional Republicans (by nature of my job).

Not listening to anti-choice people is just mirroring their unwillingness to listen to those on the side of pro-choice; same with attacking. Personal attacks aren't necessary nor are they even effective. When has a person attacking you ever changed your mind? It's not even as deep as not being capable of critical thinking. Everyone, at the end of the day, just wants to feel understood and not be disrespected.

I get some of y'all may be offended by this idea of listening to people from where they are (and not where you are), but honestly, that mindset is exactly what anti-abortion are doing to us and it clearly changes nothing. Be the change you want to see.

I think the women who are pro-life should suffer and be force bred, not my problem (unless they are like under the age of 21 then I might be more sympathetic) we should only put our efforts into helping pro-choice conservative women or the conservative women who are willing to change.