Certain women in this forum are shaming childfree women for not wanting legal marriage. Why does that bother them?

You do you. Nobody is forcing you to get married or follow FDS rules to the letter or whatever.

Even for childfree women, marriage can be useful. It depends on the country and the jurisdiction but in my country, married people get tax benefits. If one dies, the other gets everything if they died intestate (without making a will). You get situations where a man and a woman buy a house together as 'partners', the man dies and his mother or estranged wife now owns half of the house. Most of the time they can force a sale and the female 'partner ' is now left homeless, without enough money of her own to buy a new house. Most of the time, people don't like to talk about making wills, especially if they haven't even committed to get married!

If your husband dies before you, you may be eligible for his pension, as well as other benefits - like having part of your house mortgage paid off. If he's just your 'partner', you don't get any of that. You also don't pay taxes/inheritance tax/death duties on anything you get as a spouse of the deceased.

There's a reason that gay people were campaigning for marriage for such a long time. I remember someone saying that to contract into all of the rights you get from being married without being married, you'd have to sign hundreds of documents. And even then you wouldn't have the same level of rights as a spouse.

It also depends on whether you're marrying someone who actually has money. If you have a high paid job but you marry a broke scrote, yeah it's not worth it. You could end up paying alimony in the event of a divorce. That's why you don't do that. If you marry someone who actually has the means to support you, he's the one who will pay you alimony if you divorce.

Imagine being with a man for 20 years and then he leaves you for someone else. At least if you're divorced you can actually get something back for your wasted time and unpaid domestic labour. If you're just 'partners' it's just like losing a glorified roommate.

So yeah, totally up to you but it's best to know all of the actual facts and laws of your jurisdiction before you start telling women not to get married.

I haven't seen the comments you speak of. I haven't personally read any shaming against , but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. That said, I am a child free, anti-marriage woman. Yes, I agree that marriage for child free women doesn't make a lot of sense, but I have more stronger opinions why women should not legally bind themselves to a man . Women have been brainwashed into thinking marriage is some highly romantic love affair, Cinderella fairytale where prince charming comes in and swoops you up,.rescues you, provides for you, takes care of you etc. When in reality, most marriages (not all) is some variation of the woman slaving away to provide for the needs of the man, while our needs are consistently ignored. By doing 100% of the housework, childcare, emotional labor while expected to be their a sex slave, never get fat...marriage is slavery for most women. This is why so many women, might be married, but they're married to a man child who they have to take care of in addition to her actual children. And. Kw we are also expected to do all these things while working full time. No thank you.

All of this. The point if marriage has always been female subjugation. In most cases, marriage hurts women more than it benefits us. For women who want/have kids, marriage is unfortunately their best option IF they have a HVM to co-parent with.

The rest of us have the luxury of opting out of the patriarchal, female-enslaving institution. Hallelujah!

Yeah I've seen those comments. I'm also childfree and have no incentive to get married. I've said in another post, it's not a goal of mine. There are pros and cons and I'd consider it in a long term relationship as a legal option in comparison to other legal options, and decide based on which options benefit me the most (accounting for medical stuff, accounting for risk, etc).

Women can get a bad deal in marriage, we obviously all see it. And FDS gives strategies for choosing well and protecting yourself if that's what someone wants.

Likewise, women can get a bad deal being a "forever girlfriend". IMO "forever girlfriend" means a woman who lives and makes sacrifices as if she is married when she's not/when her desire is actually marriage.

But if you are legally single and living and making sacrifices/protecting yourself as if you are legally single, and don't have a desire to get married, that shouldn't get lumped in with "forever girlfriend".

I saw the comments that you're speaking of, and didn't take them as "shaming" you. The person disagrees with you, which is fine.

As someone who was royally screwed over by marriage, this is a tricky subject for me. I obviously wouldn't do it again without a solid pre-nup. I do think marriage makes sense if you're going to have kids. You're not, so it might not make sense for you. And you clearly don't want to get married, so the point is moot.

Personally, I think I would want to get married again- mainly to know that the man is truly invested. I would keep my house and rent it out, and that would be part of the pre-nup- that no matter how much money he pours into it (and he will, to make it a profitable rental) the house is mine if we get divorced. That way, if things don't work out I'll at least be living in a nicer house than I was before him. I would be super involved in our finances- no more being left in the dark.

It's really a very personal decision. There is no right or wrong solution.

I’ve seen one whine about the classic bingo “What if your parents think like you?” Mothers have no right to say such a thing to the childfree. It’s better not to be born than have parents who are lousy and only disappoint you.

If ppl don’t want kids then let them.

Ok so seriously, I'm adamantly childfree but marriage is still on the fence for me. Basically, if he's not a HVM that only brings benefits to my life then it's not going to happen. If I do entertain a legally-single partnership then there won't be any mixing of finances or shacking up. 'Living apart together' would be my preferred arrangement anyways, even if I marry. I just really enjoy having my own place & space.

I have seen some similar comments in the past, but I would like to say that I am also CF and I don’t want marriage either. You’re not alone 💖

And what perplexes me the most is that we ALL have forgotten what the purpose of marriage used to be.. It was a way for countries to form political alliances. For example, Catherine of Aragon, was married off by her father, the King of Spain, to King Henry the 8th, to form an alliance between Spain and England.. Also, prior to the women's feminist movement, it was a way for women to literally not starve or be homeless. Women needed to be married. Marriage was never for "love". It's only been in the last 100 years or so that marrying for love as become a thing. Marriage is a legal contract for a reason. It has ZERO to do with love. 3rd, it is useful if you are an immigrant seeking citizenship in your chosen country. Other than those 3 reason, I really don't see the point. Even having kids isn't really a reason to be married anymore. Maybe a possible fourth is if inheritance is something that you wouldn't get of your partner died.

I‘ll personally only ever get married to a woman. It would make my entire family shriek and I’ll only laugh. I’m adamently childree and never cared for marriage.

I’ve mostly seen miserable marriages where women are just unpaid servants, and property to their husbands and yeeee miss me with that.

I never really got the whole FDS marriage thing - if you're the wealthier one, then shouldn't you not want to get married? I mean yeah you could say you should only ever date a guy who's richer than you but if you're already pretty wealthy (and say will inherit a lot) then it seems irrational to be like "okay well I'll just restrict my dating pool to way less people just so I can get married comfortably", as opposed to just dating someone who's reasonably well off and financially independent and who you like while abstaining from marrying them.

Thanks for making this post, OP. I know exactly who you're talking about because that woman made that comment under my post asking "how to apply FDS principles if you don't want to get married".

I absolutely agree. In some cases, there are more disadvantages to being married than not, and even getting divorced does *not* mean that you'll get half of it assets or whatever (been there, done that). So I really don't see a point in getting married unless signing a prenup first, perhaps. It's not like a married man is more committed to you just because of a piece of paper. He can (and will) cheat and/or betray you if he's inclined to do so.

I wish there was some alternative to marriage that would still give you the legal benefits of marriage, but would be much easier to leave if need be. I listened to Simplynaillogical's podcast the other day (for those who don't know - she's a Canadian YouTuber who's been in a committed and childfree relationship for several years. She doesn't want to get married and her partner seems to be HV), where she suggested some sort of a "renewable" contract. Let's say, every couple of years, the couple would have to sign the document again, meaning you're actively choosing to stay in the relationship every 3 or 5 years or so.

I think this is simply an online/forum issue. In general, on this site, though I have seen so much bickering and shaming and insulting and negging and gaslighting…than I’d expect from uniting women who should be holding each other up. We should be curious, not angry, when another woman disagrees with us. We don’t have to baby each other, because it’s important to be honest, but we should be behaving like adults.

We’re here to strategize adding maximum female benefit and value to our lives. If we want HV, we need to be HV. Some of the shaming and indignant women here would be positively turned off if they saw men behaving the way they’re behaving. Rightfully so, it would be categorized as scrote behavior. Seriously, take a look at some hostile comments from FDS women and tell me we’d allow those comments to be posted by men. We absolutely would have none of it.

Well, FDS women, let’s hold ourselves to the same standards we hold men. Let’s actually be role models for how women should be spoken to

Congratulations, LVM and Pickmes have successfully convinced you that the institution of marriage is the problem, and not that being married to an LVM is the problem. Yeah, women don't need to get married to show that they are loving and committed to a relationship, but a man who wants to appear single and not be tied down does not want to get married.

The point of FDS is to vet hard enough that you don't have an LVM for a partner, that you don't have an LVM who will take out numerous joint loans, that you don't have an LVM who is financially irresponsible.

Oprah and Stedman aren't married, but he did propose to her:

The famously private couple made their engagement public in 1992, with a then 38-year-old Oprah and 41-year-old Stedman opening up to People about his proposal. Here’s how it went down. Gayle and Oprah were at her home waiting for Stedman to bring over a tape of the latest episode of The OprahWinfrey Show. But when Oprah’s partner finally got there, he popped the big question instead. Apparently, it was a pretty straightforward affair. According to their People interview, Oprah asked, “Is this the proposal?” To which Stedman replied, “I want you to marry me. I think it’s time.” Naturally, Oprah answered, “Ah, that’s really great.”

I have been on the fence in the past, and I understand why some would not want to get married. Guess I attribute a lot of not wanting to get married from the guy’s perspective as LV. It’s just a piece of paper type of thing. I look at marriage as mostly a financial decision. It would have to and should benefit you. Also the commitment part, I feel like I would want to know my partner is willing to be tied together legally. Interesting topic for sure.

💯 I'll just leave this here.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRvfuVfa/

Fds has never, and will never, be pro-forever gf. As a childfree woman myself I see zero reason why you’d enter into a relationship with a man you didn’t see as HV nor as a worthy partner. Dealing with scrotes you don’t trust, like, or care enough about to build a life with doesn’t make sense from an FDS stand point because it sounds like you don’t want a healthy relationship, you just want to fuck. In that case, just get a vibrator. Single is better than with a scrote.

Marriage depends on so many factors, like others have said here. If I had to declare Marriage as most beneficial for a situation, it would be cohabitation and especially children. Maybe it would benefit a woman if he is very wealthy and she has a lawyer who swears yhe woman will never pay alimony nor lose assets acquired prior to meeting hubby.

Me personally? I see marriage as a risk, and I am childfree. I think most men are incapable of loving me. Lowering the standards a bit, i think most cannot participate in the type of mutually respectful partnership I would need in cohabitation. I cannot even seem to find that for someone to go on fun outings.

If I HAD to cohabitate with a man, i would want the financial protections of it like someone described below. But I do not want to take the risk of cohabitating with a man because I do not want someone controlling me, expecting me to entertain him when I don't feel well, running hobosexual game moving into my place, or moving me into his place to be a mommy mcbangmaid he can kick out whenever he wants.

Right now, "living apart together" seems like the best solution when childfree. Maybe claiming to be perpetually engaged (if he is on board). Lol. But that is just my opinion. I'm not going to judge women who really want marriage or whatever because we all have different needs and things we want here. I know I really used to want marriage for the romance of it. All I can think about is LVM going to at least 2nd base with strippers at the bachelor party, saying vows with a duper's delight grin, then "just drifting apart" and 'she blindsided me" when the women have to divorce. I just can't handle that heartache.