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TW: S*xual Assault
Preface: This is a VERY long post. Writing is therapeutic for me. I journaled about this extensively and wanted to share a little something. TLDR at the bottom.
I am a pick-me after all. I failed to practice FDS principles and it was not worth it in the end. I made A LOT of mistakes that were not FDS aligned. My first mistake was making decisions based on feelings instead of fact. My second mistake was not vetting hard enough. And my biggest mistake of all was valuing the companionship of a mediocre man over my own needs. This experience revealed to me that I still have so much internal work to do.
I’ve been OLD on and off since the pandemic hit in 2020. Usually guys do not make it past the 2nd date with me because I spot red flags or I’m just not interested. Recently, this one guy was able to make it past that.
Context for cultural reasons/language barrier: I’m a 24 yr old Black woman in the American south. The guy is a 25 yr old Greek-American man (raised in Greece by 1 American parent and 1 Greek parent )
The story goes: We matched on a popular OLD site and within the first few messages he said he really wanted to get to know me and asked for my number since he was so busy and didn’t keep up with the app much. Red flag #1…why are you here if you’re not intentional about dating/too busy for the app? I told him I don’t like to give my number out. He asked me for my Snapchat (red flag #2) instead. I told him I don’t have one (I do). He then asked about my number again and I told him I only give it out once I’ve met the potential suitor in person (my 1st mistake was sharing this). I told him he could have my google voice number. He then immediately asked me out on a date once he contacted me on my google voice number. He asked if I wanted to go to one of the local roller skating rinks. I was flattered because he paid attention to my profile (I have a short clip of me roller skating…my favorite hobby).
That weekend we met and I was pleasantly impressed by his looks. He was tall, attractive, smelled great, and had the most sexy accent. He always had great manners, was a gentleman, and always stopped to ask people who fell if they were ok. He was not good at roller skating at all haha which I found enduring because I thought it meant he was not afraid to be bad at something he knew I was good at. I thought this meant he didn’t have toxic masculinity. We would take moments to sit down and chat in between skating. I had a great time, but found myself wondering if he liked my company (usually I do not care lol)…I had to talk myself out of this line of thinking constantly throughout the night. At the end of the night he walked me to my car. He pulled out his phone and gave it to me..asking me to enter in my real number. I did. We then hugged which was normal at first, but then he lingered for a little too long..I uncomfortably said “You give quite a hug” with a chuckle…he said “I give the best hugs” and then hugged me even tighter for a bit longer. I finally tried to let go and he followed my lead. I started to open my car door when he put both his hands on my checks and redirected my face in his direction…I was kinda in shock while we made eye contact for a few seconds and he leaned in to kiss me. It was a really nice kiss. He texted me that night to share his number with me. The next day he texted “good morning” and he did this for the next few months.
We went on more dates during this time period. The dates were catered to my interests and things I had expressed to him that I’d like to do. He would text me first everyday and call me every single night. At first I thought it was a bit much, but then I thought to myself that maybe this is what it’s like when a guy actually likes you and wants to get to know you. I’ve never had a guy actually like me for me. Men usually only like me for my beauty and my body type. I made the mistake of thinking maybe this guy was dIfFeREnT. Each date he would push things physically further and further. He began with fondling me then each time things would progress —> grabbing the back of my neck —> grabbing my throat —> squeezing my throat—> and so on. I’m too embarrassed to share any more details because of what I allowed.
When I look back I realize I let him control the pace of our physical relationship. I’m not very experienced (all my experiences have been non-consensual) and wasn’t sure what a normal progression of physical intimacy should be like. I knew I felt kind of off and that the things he did didn’t necessarily feel great, but they didn’t feel bad. I think what I liked was feeling desired by someone I also desired. He would tell me how beautiful and amazing I am during intimate moments. One time he even had me repeat after him and say to myself how beautiful and amazing I am (this was while I was going down on him). At the time I thought it was sweet...lol affirmations during intimacy?
TW: s*xual assault
The first and only time he came over to my place he m*lested me in the middle of the night when he thought I was asleep. He wasn’t supposed to sleep over but he said he was too tired to drive home. I woke up to him doing what he was doing to me and I just froze (this is how my body always responds and I hate it…and I hate myself for putting myself in that situation). The guy is 6’1 and lifts & boxes regularly. I’m 5’4 and don’t really stand a chance against him. After this night things changed. He started withdrawing and giving me scraps. I was in denial and made excuses for him. He works and is in graduate school so I made myself believe he was just really busy. But he had made time for me in the past…now he was just choosing not to prioritize me. A few weeks of this goes by before I ask him to tell me straight up what’s going on. He then says how amazing I am but that the timing is not right…I felt rejected and felt like a fool. He had lovebombed me. He had assaulted me. I allowed him to use my body. My self-esteem & self-respect had really taken a hit.
In the beginning I had been taking notes on him. I’d ask myself about any concerns I noticed and how I felt after I saw him each time. As I started to develop feelings for him, I stopped vetting as much.
Rant: I don’t even know if I believe in romantic love…I would like to believe I can find a partner that I like, am attracted to, values me, and makes my life easier. I know I let my guard down way too early, but are there men out there that a woman can just relax in love with? You really have to NEVER stop vetting? How is this enjoyable for anyone? Are there women that are actually happy in love? Is everyone just lying and settling? Is all this worth it to find a loving partner? I really hoped OLD would work for me. My best friend met her seemingly high value husband OLD. Another friend of mine met her boyfriend of 2 years OLD. They say it’s the best relationships they’ve ever been in. Im trying hard not to internalize this experience, but it’s hard.
What I have learned:
let go at the FIRST sign of red flags…as much as you want to hold out hope…DON’T
Let go when you feel confused about his intentions…the moment he began to withdraw I could have moved on
Don’t fall for words…people lie…are his words aligning with his actions?
The validation that he was attracted to me & liked me did not matter in the end because he did not VALUE me. Male validation will never be worth more than your self-respect
People go through this world looking out for themselves & don’t care who they hurt along the way. In dating, if you aren’t getting what you truly want then LEAVE. He got what he wanted from me and LEFT.
You don’t always need to rationalize why you don’t like something a guy does or says…if you don’t like it then that’s enough
His red flags:
He emphasized how “nice” I was (he said I was too good and pure for this world) and how I must get a lot of attention because of my looks..he really just saw me as a easy target
“Good girl” comments during intimacy and calling himself “daddy”…girl he’s pornsick
One time I said “You sure are horny a lot. Uh oh, you’re not a sex addict are you haha?”…i was actually not being serious but he responded with “I’d like to say no, but I know the real answer is yes”
Obsession with dominance and control…he would always plan the dates and when we talked and he would always initiate intimacy …I mistook this for intentionality, decisiveness, and healthy masculinity…i thought this was him pursuing me…I was wrong
My mistakes:
blaming our language barrier and cultural differences on some of his actions and things he would say
Sticking things out because of a scarcity mindset // easing up on my vetting way too early
Giving him my real number
Allowing him into my home
Being physically intimate too soon
Even though I have been reading FDS for a while, it was sooooooo much harder to actually practice the philosophy out in the field... especially when I actually liked the guy. I do not find a lot of men attractive or like them easily. But this guy…idk I was really tested and failed. He was attractive, groomed himself, ambitious, disciplined, masculine, prioritized me at first, pursued me at first, etc. But in the end he was pornsick, predatory, a liar, etc.
TLDR
I had been dating a man for a few months and allowed him to set the pace for the relationship. This was the first guy I actually liked and found attractive after many dead end first dates on OLD. I talked myself out of the red flags and continued to see him. In the end, he ended things because the timing was wrong (lol).
So much of my past trauma with men and daddy issues came up & I let that lead my poor decisions. I’ve realized a lot of things I need to focus on with my therapist more seriously. I lost a lot of respect for myself for what I allowed. I am tired of just being desired for my looks. I want to be valued for my humanity. I must first truly value myself to never allow a man like that to know me again. I let myself down, but I am moving forward with more wisdom.
Let yourself off the hook.
Personal growth isn't linear, especially in the early days. Kicking our inner pick me down the stairs is HARD because of how deeply ingrained social conditioning is for women. We are taught to gaslight ourselves, project our own good qualities on men, and overlook their shitty qualities in pursuit of a fairy tale.
You've done the work of identifying the red flags and where you went wrong. Now you've got experience and next time these flags will be very obvious.
Hi. Don't lose respect for yourself. We all do the best we can. I'm sure there are many other women on here who have made similar mistakes and are just not wanting to say it. I know I have. I've read a lot of FDS aligned books but I share your same questions... I honestly don't know when the vetting process stops and when I can just trust. I've decided, for myself at least, that I will not have any sexual relations with a man in the future until he commits to me fully and shows evidence of his commitment. No sex during dating. Only in a committed relationship. And if he pushes me for sex, then it's goodbye, because he's obviously not interested in me as a person. Also - this experience you had with this man is not your failure to own. It's his failure for being a disgusting, putrid slimeball piece of scum parading around as a "man." He is worth nothing. Your post was helpful for me and many others. We support you ❤️
You got with a rapist, it sounds like. I'm so sorry for this. The one thing that I need to say is that I am aware of how high sexual assault rates are with black women, so no doubt he targeted you for that fact alone. He knows black women usually aren't' believed or looked after by the system that's meant to protect women in general from this.
FDS is difficult to practice, absolutely. It means going against so much we have used to be taught in for so many years. We've been socially conditioned and groomed to accept, and in some extreme cases even become aroused by, male cruelty and sexual sadism. None of this is your fault, and we as women as a collective class are going through this together.
Please reach out to a crisis hotline so that they can direct you to resources to help you through this difficult and traumatic time. A lot of what you said on the bottom wrt trauma with men and daddy issues must be addressed with a professional as soon as you are able to. This type of thing is like a cycle going into a circle; until and unless you get to the root of your wounds and traumas, you will keep going through more trauma with future men.
Many hugs to you.
He used red pill tactics on you. We must all be aware of them. Escalation of physical touch is a big one. Please see this thread on the FDS Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/s291ss/redpillpua_tactic_breaking_the_touch_barrier/
Also, calling every night could be a red flag of lovebombing. Remember, if it doesn’t feel right to you, believe your intuition.
The Red Pill is a scourge on women. It is insidious and dangerously infecting the minds of men. Be careful out there, ladies. These Red Pill men are manipulative scammers. Their tactics are obvious once you know what they are. Also, please reread the FDS handbook.
Be kind to yourself. Look up self-compassion techniques. I’m glad you’re in therapy. You‘re doing great sweetie.
I am truly so sorry you had to go through such an awful experience. Your feelings are all valid. Please be cautious of shaming yourself or guilting yourself as you are a victim in this relationship. He is a rapist so please be kind to yourself and go to therapy. Learning from this experience, protecting yourself and vetting properly in the future will be what will get you through this and continue to grow and heal your body and your heart. Don’t be mad at yourself, we all make mistakes but what he did to you IS NOT YOUR FAULT. ♥️ You can heal and grow from this.
In this scenario, the majority of the guilt goes to him, not you. His actions were despicable. Sure, it can be embarrassing to realize we should have walked away sooner, but people who take advantage of other people's good nature are STILL assholes. People who sexually assault and rape others are the lowest scum of the earth no matter what. You can make better choices from now on, that's the most important takeaway. It's not your fault that men are shitty.
It’s so much easier to look back and see things for what they were than it is in the moment. Please be kind to yourself. We shouldn’t need any of FDS’s tactics, men should just be decent people. Poor treatment is never deserved.
You are not a Pick Me. 1. You are inexperienced and need therapy to heal and learn about boundaries and how to assert them. Because of your past you are a becon for preditors. Is it your fault? No! Your vibe is soft, gentle and you are quick to blame yourself.. an abusers dream. None of those things about your nature are bad but terrible men love that stuff.
2. Also men will keep trying this stuff on you and all other flavors of nonsense just because it's OLD. Men think it is a personal stable of hoes to try their crap on and move on. I stopped dating completely for 11 years because I thought it was all men that were red flag machines but OLD men really are the worst of the worst. Why do you think fathers used to protect girls as they found a husband? Because men unchecked, with no consequences will use you like a fleshlight and toss you aside. On OLD you are a woman without a shotgun toting father (so to speak). Not to mention, every good man I know either wont try OLD or deleted it very quickly. 3. You can learn every fact there is and everything is still harder when the rubber meets the road. I am naturally FSD, I have been wearing a "Dump Him" t-shirt since I was 12 and I have been through PLENTY because of men. You learn some things the hard way as we all have blind spots. --- The major, major lesson from this is: DON'T LET MEN IN YOUR HOUSE IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO GIVE HIM A THROAT PUNCH lol (or throw him out for crossing a line). Men are perfectly fine outside where they belong for a long looong time. If he throws a fit because he can't sleep with you, he is not the one sis and you have your answer on him. You have to learn to be your own shotgun toting father and it's not your fault you didn't fully realize that untested, right away, perfectly and without some error.
Raised in Greece was the 1st red flag--lots of rape there. The 2nd was when he hugged you too long on your 1st date. But we've all been fooled. Men will do or say anything for sex. ANYTHING. And they don't feel badly for lying and hurting you afterwards. "A hard dick has no conscience." Never let a man into your house or anywhere private if you're not prepared to have sex. They're all expecting sex when they get you alone. There are no exceptions. Please don't be too hard on yourself. He's the one with bad intentions not you. I wish we'd go back to the days where men had to meet our fathers first and then had chaperoned dates. Women are our here being thrown to the wolves.
This makes me so angry, so sad for you, and all of us. I hate that this happened to you. I'm so, so sorry. Honestly, I have the sane questions as you. What is the point of dating, of all of this, if the man can switch up at any time? Constantly sleeping with one eye open, continuously vetting?
I mean, I know that this is a dating forum, and most of us want to be partnered with a man, but I have to ask, is it worth it for all of this? I've seen a lot of queens on here talk about how they feel like there's no hope, and they ask partnered queens to share their stories, and partnered queens do share their stories, but I feel like we collectively underestimate just how rare those success stories are. Of course, I'm happy for the queens that are happy with their partners, but I think a lot of us need to recognize that we might not wind up having the dream partner and family that we want, simply because there really aren't enough good men out there. Even with all the vetting that we do, men can switch up at any time.
I really truly feel that, at this point, we all should be operating under the assumption that we're going to be single and childfree. And if that is not what we envisioned for ourselves, we might need to begin the process of grieving now. I think it's good to hope, but hope is not a plan. We should expect and assume that it's not going to happen, because men are that disappointing.
I feel like if we're going to date, we have to do so with the assumption that this, quite literally, might kill us. Chances are, we are not going to wind up with the happy ending that we want because men are so disappointing.
I hope I'm not hurting anyone's feelings, least of all yours, by saying this. But it really makes me wonder...
This isn't a question for you, but for all queens. What are we doing this for? Are we all that attracted to men that we're willing to risk it to be one of the rare few who get a HVM?
Much love to you, sis. Your post title needs adjusting because you are NOT a PickMe at all, ok? He is the failure, not you. This blame is not yours to carry. I echo everyone else here who has recommended you get into counseling for the psychological abuse and assault you’ve survived. Hugs to you.
I am so, so sorry you were assaulted by that asshole, and in your own home, too.
Perhaps you remember my post a few weeks ago about being disappointed with myself for violating my standards. I felt really bad about myself and disgusted. Since then, I have been going out with someone who has been kind to me, loves doing things for me and saying nice things, never pressures me. Don't loose hope, there are some truly awful men out there but there are also the ones who will value you for you.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. Please don't be so hard on yourself. I haven't read all the responses here but in case no one else mentioned it, there was a serious transgression in his initial conversation with you. I again want to emphasisze I am not blaming you at all, and there was no way to know how far he would escalate. The transgression was not respecting your "no." When you said no to his request for your number, he kept going. All men who do this are problematic. Not all who do this are rapists, but they share one thing in common: they don't care about what you want - only what they want from you.
Again, OP, I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Edit: If you haven't read it, I would recommend you take a look at The Gift of Fear for a breakdown of tactics that predators use and how to spot them. TW for rape / violent assault in the initial chapter, though.
I am sorry this happen to you… don’t be that hard on yourself. He had a goal all along. I haven’t tried FDS in practice myself, I am new to this, and I am not currently dating. Thank you for sharing, so I can prepare for it not to be smooth sailing myself. You seem very self-reflective. And now you learned a lesson. No reason to be beating yourself up for this. He is the problem. We just have to outsmart them.
I'm older than you and made similar mistakes recently. It's a learning process. We're conditioned as women to see the best in men and make excuses for them, and then our feelings get muddled up in it and we can't see the forest for the trees.
I have a firm boundary that I don't do anything sexual with men that I'm not in a committed relationship with, let alone not meeting that emotional connection level. But this most recent guy I was so attracted to and (ashamed to admit) manipulated by his charm and lovebombing, that I let him push those boundaries. Like you, it was a guy I actually liked and found attractive, and that's very rare.
We never had sex but only because he had 0.1% of decency not to push it. He just kept pushing for everything else and I gave in. No, you can't take off my top. Ok, just the top. etc etc. No, you can't touch me. Ok, fine, but nothing else. etc etc, you can imagine how it went. I remember saying no over and over again but I liked him so much that I would let him.
It only occurred to me later that it was coercion at minimum, sexual assault if I really sit with my feelings. And then he dumped me and I was left with the shame and embarrassment of not listening to my instincts & FDS about all his other red flags, just like you.
We really do ourselves a disservice by letting our emotions dictate how we interact with men over the objective truth. The truth is that men will manipulate and say/do whatever they can to get what they want, and we're the ones left with the trauma while they sleep peacefully.
Don't blame yourself. It's so easy to internalize everything but it's not your fault that you tried to see the good in someone that didn't deserve it. We have so much love and affection to give and it unfortunately manifests in self-destructive ways, like trying to give it to men that don't deserve it and trample all over it. We attract men that can sense that and it's up to us to protect ourselves. We can accept responsibility for not walking away, but it's not our fault we were hurt, assaulted, or treated badly.
There are a lot of parallels in our situations (down to cultural/language differences, pornsickness, etc) so if you need someone to talk about it with please dm me💗
I’m so grateful for threads like this. I learn a lot. I’m so sorry this scrote put you through this
i’m sorry to hear that. i was once taken advantage of by a 33 year old when i was 20. that’s my own fault. and it’s sad how men prey on us bw. at least you’ve learned from your mistakes. i understand ignoring sexual advances and feeling uncomfortable. i feel like because i’m a bw, these men can easily harm me and get away with it. that’s why i don’t say anything and just ghost.
Onwards and upwards. Self respect is the foundation for living life on your terms. You’ll get there in time. Take care of yourself x