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I have a idea about female only spaces.
Subject 1) I have an acquaintance with (whom I keep minimal contact) who is a transwoman. I met them online when we took in new recruits for a gaming group (big mistake for so many other reasons). This person hid who they were at the beginning which is easy to do online, so they pretended to be a natal female right off the bat. Only later was it revealed that this person was trans.
Right from the beginning there was always something off about his sexuality. He identifies as a lesbian, but was very visual which I found odd. There were always masses of fantasy pictures being posted with anti-gravity boobs and minimal clothing. And what I like to call the sex pout - the facial expression you find on the front of glossy magazines when women are covered. Mouth slightly open, looking up demurely / sexually. It felt weird that a women posted these, and I usually said something about how absurd they were and how they overly sexualised every subject.
There were other signs, but I think that one stands out because of the sheer frequency of fantasy porn I was subjected to. It made me uncomfortable.
Subject 2) A fella who is out as bisexual though I suspect leans heavily towards male preference. I am perfectly happy and comfortable in his presence and enjoy long and thoughtful conversations with him. I know that even when we sometimes clash and get pissed off with one another, he will still have my back down the road. I am not sexualised by him.
Subject 3) A male work-friend. Not the worst, not the best. Just a generic LVM. I will say this for him; when he asked me out he respected my no, so in general he does not make me uncomfortable. But he doesn't know how to operate a washing machine (the buttons are very confusing, though he can competently operate the controls of a PlayStation) and admits if the transman in his household didn't do his washing his mum would have to. (Take note ladies - you can change sex and take T, but you will still be given the role of the housekeeper).
When I talk about my sea swimming there is a risk of being sexualised by him. He thinks it's being complimentary - because my getting changed on the beach (rather than dripping in my car) would be worth a sight worth seeing. I disagree. It would be really gross to have my HVW swimming group feel tainted by ogglers. I have a great hobby that does wonders for my body and soul, and I don't need a man's sexuality to impose on my enjoyment. I love that we are just bodies and I can change without being stared at. Or joke about going commando while wearing a skirt. Even typing that out seem risky and weird because I'm not at the beach with my friends.
The point I'm getting to. Of these men I know - MtF, mostly gay, and regular Joe, the one I am most comfortable sharing a space with is the one who doesn't sexualise me. I recall a post from here where a woman-only gym space had a gay couple and the women were perfectly happy with it.
So my realisation is what my women only safe spaces provide. I need a space where I can get away from the male gaze and the pressures and dehumanisation that comes with it. Any male who's gaze isn't on me doesn't affect my equilibrium. And I love my swimming group :)
Being a MtF trans lesbian always just sounds like being a straight man with a porn induced lesbian fetish and the intention to violate actual lesbian's boundaries to me.
If you are a biological male who is sexually attracted to biological women ... you are heterosexual, not trans. Probably a heterosexual autogynophile who gets off on wearing a dress and a bad wig while having sex. But you definitely aren't a lesbian woman.
This clarifies exactly why any time there's any news at all about any women's space - like a women's shelter - if there's a comments section, it's gonna be full of men shitting all over the fact that such a place exists at all. Whining about the existence of something that doesn't cater to them.
Men who have a problem with women's shelters are predatory men who can't stand that women have any place to go where they can get away from being dehumanized by men.
Some men picture some kind of "mean girls' club" where the "exclusivity" is for the purpose of dehumanizing anyone not in the "in group" - because that's what men do with their "gentlemen's clubs".
Subject 1 is a pornsick, predatory autogynephile (redundant) who actively deceived you and other women in order to violate your boundaries and gain access to a space that he knew he would be excluded from if you knew what he really is (a man who fetishizes presenting as a woman and believes he is entitled to be treated like a woman despite actually being a man). This person should be shunned and excluded from everything by default, not least of all because he is a sleazy liar who feels no shame about lying to people who included him in good faith, but also because he is severely mentally ill and enabling the delusions of psychotic people is the exact opposite of compassionate care.
Subject 2 sounds like a genuine friend, and is probably gay if you have never felt sexualized by him IMO.
Subject 3 is not really your friend; he harbors strong fantasies of having sex with you and is lewd and crude enough to verbalize them openly. He sounds gross and like a LV creeper and you should cut contact with him except as absolutely necessary at work. Needing a "transman" (woman in a man costume) to do his laundry because mUh bUtTonS aRe CoNfuSiNG is peak scrotery, what an absolute tool 😂
Yay swimming! Boo to that gamer misrepresenting himself in order to validate his anime-gender identity by "fooling" you and others.
This actually makes a lot of sense! We are bombarded with the male gaze since we are little kids and there's the constant fear of being raped. Plus a lot of other things needless to mention. We're women, we know all of them very well...
So it's reasonable to be uncomfortable when we are around people who sexualize us. This is especially difficult for me when I have a crush on a guy and he seems to correspond. It's a mix of "yesss, he wants to have sex with me!" and "oh noooo! he wants to have sex with me... shit!" And then I just spiral into anxiety and fear of sexual violence. It's hell.
And this happens because I *know* the type of sex het men enjoy. And I don't enjoy it. So the fact that a man wants to have sex with me means he probably wants to do horrible things to me. It's not sweet pleasant sex. It's rough violent porn encated in real life. Best case scneario, it's disappointing. Worst case scenario it's traumatizing...
I know the stance of FDS on trans women isn't welcoming for many reasons, what about trans men? I'm curious. Would you date one? What do you think of them? Often the only differences with AMAB men are height (trans men are often short for a man) and sometimes the fact that they keep their original genitals, sometimes not. I think their socialization (since they grew up as "women") might make them more understanding of us, more aware of cultural misogyny and of the problems we face.
Some of the comments on this thread, and the homophobic stuff that was getting posted in here yesterday have got me rethinking my ability to feel like this community is a good place for me. I really liked this community over similar minded ones like RPW, because I felt like many of the others are inherently anti-women, but maybe I'm still on the lookout for a version that's not conservative or terf leaning. I've learned a lot and got some good tips, so thanks everyone, but I'm going to take this thread and my cue to peace out.
I might be in the minority here, but I don’t necessarily agree. Gender identity, expression and sexuality are different. Female gender identity has to do with how this person views themselves, their body, their identity, and their gender expression. Sexuality is who they are attracted to. It would make sense that a trans woman would label her sexuality as lesbian if she is attracted to women as she does not identify her gender as male. I recognize that all women might not be comfortable with this, but it doesn’t bother me at all. This person feels like a woman inside, and gender identity is complex. I also think there are many reasons why a trans person might not disclose, and I don’t assume it has to do with trying to mislead. It’s often for safety purposes. Trans women are murdered and assaulted at extremely high rates.