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WARNING: These are HANDBOOK POSTS -- WRITTEN A LONG TIME AGO by some great women with great thoughts and deemed as handbook worthy by FDS mods for a reason. If you feel triggered or disagree with something -- THE SMART THING TO DO IS TO MOVE ON. Agree to disagree and go on your merry way. Stop trying to start bullsh*t in the comment section because I have no patience to deal with you.
Originally posted in FDS subreddit. All rights reserved to the original writer.
"Why should men always pay for the dates?"
This is perhaps the single most asked question in FDS. It’s a topic of constant debate. It’s the hill critics want to die on. But why is this a rule that the handbook insists on? Why is 50/50 not the way to go? Do we hate equality and progress that much? Not at all. Read on.
It Discourages Redpill Men
One of the goals of FDS is to thwart redpill-minded men and hookup culture in general. RP tactics thrive on the current notions of equality and sex-positivity. Women in the current dating climate are encouraged to pay for half on dates, have sex as soon as possible, and generally bend over backwards to prove to some guy that you’re a better partner than anyone else currently in his rotation. RP men encourage this behavior with tactics like negging and dread, when in reality your efforts do nothing to win him over. They’ll look at you with the same amount of disdain as any other woman.
By expecting a man to pay on the first date, you’ll throw the men using these tactics off their game. It’s more investment than they expected at this stage of the game. They now have to convince you that your expectations are wrong. Worse, they’ll pick up the tab and expect you to pay them back for it - either monetarily or sexually.
That’s not to say that every man who balks at paying the bill is aligned with RP or using pickup artist tactics. But this simple expectation goes a long way toward weeding out such men who are looking for a free or cheap prostitute to add to the collection. This is the first step to making sure you don’t become a plate.
Risk Mitigation
After reading the previous point, you might be thinking, “But wait! Aren’t we also looking to get maximum benefit with minimal effort? What’s the difference between the two?”
The difference here is that we’re looking for serious relationships, while the above men are looking for bangmaids. FDS is for long-term fulfillment, the other for short term fulfillment.
There are serious risks involved when potentially dealing with people who want to use, abuse, and drop you. Generally speaking, when a date goes poorly for a man, he’s out the cost of dinner. When a date goes poorly for a woman, she gets assaulted, raped, kidnapped. A man can often overpower you at any time, whether with brute force or a drug in your drink.
We have more to lose. The least an HVM can do is cover our financial risk.
Men Are In Competition
Simple supply and demand. There are more men pursuing women, therefore it’s on men to show why they’re the best candidate. It’s basic economics. The same principle applies to why potential employees typically have to apply for jobs instead of the other way around, why competing companies tend to lower their products’ prices to entice customers, and so on.
Offsets Cost of Preparation
Don’t deny that women tend to put forth more effort into our appearance than men do. Skincare, makeup, hair, and clothing are all markets primarily aimed at women. The men’s markets could be larger, and they should be, but they aren’t for a reason: the money isn’t there.
If a woman’s spending $100+ (as a conservative estimate) to prepare for a night with you, the least you could do is buy her dinner.
Here are some resources on how expensive being a woman is:
Shows Investment
We pay money for things that are important to us. The same men who will balk at treating you to dinner won’t think twice about paying for an OnlyFans subscription for a woman that truly interests them.
This ties with the first point about repelling redpill men, but applies to men in general. The dating scenes for men and women are vastly different. Men try to make up for this by playing the numbers, taking whatever woman will show the slightest interest whether he’s excited about her or not. And when you’re trying to get the attention of dozens of women a day, you’re not going to put a lot of effort into wooing them, because that’ll get exhausting and take too much time. But men WILL put effort into pursuing a woman they genuinely like.
A common criticism against men paying for dates is “if I have multiple dates in a week, I can’t afford to pay for them all!” We’re looking for men who aren’t entertaining multiple women a week. We’re looking for that guy who’s actually excited to be with us. The way a man does that is with money.
Etiquette
Back when people had manners, when you invited someone out for dinner, you picked up the bill. It would of course follow that a woman picks up the bill if she asks out a man, but this is also an ill-advised strategy.
Bonus: But What About Equality?
The biggest criticism for men paying from women is that it undermines women’s efforts for equality between the sexes. It seems a common belief that a man paying for your tacos entitles him to access to your, ahem, taco.
First of all, you can have equal rights under the law and still want to be treated on occasion by the opposite sex. It’s allowed. No matter what the men on Reddit tell you, you don’t have to be as miserable as they are.
Second, the fact that men still have this expectation for you in 2020 shows that there’s no social equality to undermine in the first place. Any man who expects sex for the slightest financial investment is not a man you need to see again. And any woman who feels the need to repay her meal with sexual favors is doing nothing to advance women’s interests.
There you have it. There are multiple reasons for expecting a man to pay for dates that don’t revolve around women being greedy little harpies. Gentlemen, if you insist on blowing up my inbox with rebuttals I ask that you be at least slightly more detailed than “I wAnT 50/50.” Better yet, leave this sub alone and find a woman who shares your values.
Bonus: Comment by u/MakeURegret
Thanks for laying this out again. It definitely took me awhile to wrap my head around this concept. And it was one of my initial misgivings with fds.
But the biggest point to me is - if he won’t invest in you it means he doesn’t really care. He’s trying to see if he can give little effort and still get sex. Men will have sex with anyone (hell anyTHING). And why wouldn’t they? The risks to them are little and they’re basically guaranteed to get off, even if they don’t find the woman that attractive/aren’t that into her.
On the other hand women have so much to lose during sex. Even if it starts off consensually it can very easily turn into rape. We shoulder more risks and stigma with pregnancy. We are more susceptible to stds due to our biology (btw don’t men love the biology argument?). We suffer more social stigma. Even if we’re not raped the sex can still hurt, etc. And at the end of all that: we’re not even sure we’ll get an orgasm.
If guys could always get sex on the third date (like pop-culture loves to shove down our throats) then they would ask any and EVERY woman out. Wouldn’t matter if they didn’t find her attractive or weren’t that into her.
And so that’s why men need to pay. It’s the only way to get them to be selective.
Bonus: Comment by u/Geocities_SEO_Expert
Also, men either have a provider mindset or a taker mindset. Takers will take anything they can get from a woman, with no guilt, the same as small children take resources from their parents and don't feel any guilt or debt. Don't date a manchild who wants a bangmom.
Bonus: Comment by u/used-books
All excellent points!
Additional thought- paying for dates shows generosity.
As women we give and give- to our jobs, families, communities and partners. Who is taking care of us?
A giving and generous attitude is one of the most important qualities to vet for in a long term partner. I’m not talking about money or gifts but giving you attention and emotional support, really listening, being generous sexually, giving loving non sexual touch and giving time to share chores and household maintenance rather than doing the bare minimum.
In early dating, when you don’t know each other yet the act of buying a meal shows how happy a man is to show you a good time, expecting nothing in return but the pleasure of your company.
Bonus: Comment by u/CatSweets
One point about equality: we usually don't get paid as much as men, so going 50/50 with them means losing money.
Bonus: Comment by Yours Truly (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧
DO YOU REALLY WANT TO? (GO 50/50 ON A DATE)
Just ask yourself, be honest with yourself, ignore the "politically correct" that-what-we-should-do whatever the hell brainwashing bullsh*t that has been put into your mind since you were born -- and try being brutally, very very very veryyyy honest with yourself:
DO YOU REALLY WANT TO?
Because let me tell you, in my experience, most of these women who is hell-bent on paying for dates and shout the loudest about "EqUaLiTy!!!!" are the ones, when there is a space for them to be truly and brutally honest with themselves -- admit that they are hoping that after they have "proven" themselves enough, the man they are dating will start pampering them.
You know -- like in the books and movies and Disney stories.
So, I will ask you again;
DO YOU REALLY WANT TO?
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