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Hi queens. Long time worker, first-time poster.
I've been seeing this so much, and I don't think I can remain silent about it anymore.
I know so many people in my generation (Zillenials/Gen Z/some Gen Alpha) who are becoming "non-binary"/"genderqueer". They don't see themselves as men or women anymore, and they only use they them pronouns. You've probably seen these people on social media, perhaps complaining about their families misgendering them, or struggling with how the world sees them.
Listen. I'm all for people living how they want to, but... there's something about people, particularly women, only wanting to use they/them pronouns, cutting their hair, dressing androgynously, that makes me quite uncomfortable.
It's not their style of dress on their own that's the problem. For me, it's their persistence at distancing themselves from womanhood as much as possible.
To play devil's advocate, I can't exactly blame them. Most of our collective understanding of womanhood is painful. The reality of womanhood isn't a walk in the park. We're paid less, harassed on the street, slushhamed and/or victim blamed when we're raped or assaulted, high chance of dying in childbirth, having to do most of the childcare and domestic care if you survive the child's birth and can raise the child. Among a bunch of other things that we could spend the next 100 years talking about. (In fact, we have spent the past 100 years talking about it and we continue to do so.)
And, of course, this is before we talk about the fact that our reproductive rights are being eroded. So honestly, with the way things are going, it's hard to find joy in being a woman. So so, in a fucked-up way, the growing number of women just walking away from womanhood to be a "they/them" makes sense.
It's just that I'm seeing a lot of women in my personal network starting to do this. Most recently, I had a female friend of mine tell me that they were genderqueer and they only use "they/them" pronouns now. And something in my heart just... sank.
Every time I hear a woman do this, it feels like we're losing one of them. Does that make sense?
I know there's pushback, and I know a lot of radfems are trying to fight for our sex-based rights, but I feel like there's just not enough of us. I don't know that we'll be able to change what's happening right now. So many people believe that sex isn't real, that you can be whatever gender you wanna be, which means I interact with a lot more males than I want to because everyone just accepts them as trans women and that's just that. I feel bad saying this because I know if I say this out loud I will be shunned by my peers. But... I want a true, woman-only space. FDS in real life, if you will.
I also don't know what to do about my fellow women who don't want to be women anymore. If I try to tell them that we're still going to be assaulted by men, and that the men will always see us as women, regardless of how we feel, I'll be labeled a transphobe, or problematic.
Of course, we can talk about men in dresses invading our spaces, but I don't think enough discussion is being had about trans men, or "non-binary" women. Especially considering even though they don't identify as women, they expect unfettered access to our spaces, too.
I guess I'm saying all of this because I want all of your thoughts on this. I also want to understand how we can curb this. I don't want to see generations of women (or men, really) who are confused about their gender because libfem ideology told them that they can identify as whatever they want depending on the day. And of course, these changes are going to impact the dating, relationship, marriage and parenting realms, which particularly pertain to us here.
But... This seems to big to handle, you know? Are we doomed? Because it seems like everyday another woman or man is coming out as non-binary.
Women turning to gender theory to be genderqueer, non binary, or 'man' is just internalized mysoginy. (On steroids if they decide to transition to 'be a man's)
Just like the extreme nlogs, the only thing that will snap these women out of it is by being betrayed by the side they seek to ally with (so men). At some point in time all women realize that seeking to opt out of womanhood or 'gender roles' in order to not be treated as a woman doesn't prevent you from being targeted and taken advantage of. In fact, it waves a very obvious colored flag that you're a prime target in the throes of an identity crisis looking for any affirmation regardless of the source.
You can't save these women, it's a waste of your time to try and do so. Move along and focus on fighting with and for women (who are happy to BE women). There are plenty of experts devoting themselves to helping educate about that harms of gender theory and the puberty-phobia that has caused this social contagion. And there are plenty of detransers who are beginning to publicize the realization that they've been lied to. There are people better equipped than you or I to engage these mysoginistic women.
See them for what they are- inherently sexist women who hystrionically perform and pout to manipulate everyone they come in contact with.
Yes, the "escape" from womanhood is troubling. Like, really? Tumblr-Gender. A cult with misogyny at its core. No need for a charismatic leader because the "superpeer" of the Intenet provides ever-changing rules to follow and ever-present exposure to signal that one is indeed following.
Tourette's syndrome is also trending via TikTok...as is multiple-personality disorder. These "identities" are so much easier to adopt than to do the hard work of maturation and developing character. (Not Sims or DandD, but actual, individual character.)
My heart breaks for those who are swept into this nonsense by their peers and encouraged by organizations, media and health institutions.
I suspect the cracks in the narrative will gradually expand as young women wake up to the effects of cross sex hormones on their bodies, and start to discuss what really drove them to feel trans. ("If you even question whether you might be trans...you are!" Goes the cult doctrine.)
Teen girls and young women are acutely aware of how much society hates them, and many will try to distance themselves from being seen as feminine. I would know, I was one of those girls, but being a mid-30s person, the idea of "genderfluid" or "nonbinary" or whatever didn't exist when I was that age. Technically some people my age are adopting this but I see it more of a Gen Z thing.
I will say this - a lot of them will grow out of it and look back on it as their "not like other girls" stage. I did and I see this discourse a lot in some circles. But so many things are different right now than it was 20 years ago that now I wonder. We had Myspace, we didn't have Tiktok and all that, constantly pushing the dumbest shit onto teens. These apps like Tiktok are INSIDIOUS - they prey upon insecurities and human psychology to keep people hooked. It's affecting not just social groups but all of society, all around the world. People need to log the fuck off and get dumbphones. Or at least don't download these apps, or get an app that will block all of these harmful ones.
Also from a mental health perspective, I desperately need people to stop diagnosing themselves with things and making excuses. Especially when it comes to personality disorders, depression, anxiety disorders, etc. That shit is not quirky, or cute, or trendy. Fucking stop. Go to a psychiatrist if you think you may have an issue. Genuinely.
My observations: partly internalized misogyny, partly a desire to wriggle free from the suffocating choke-hold of patriarchy and it's forced expectations and/of performative femininity. + so much more, of course... I'm hoping it's a messy in-between stage of a larger 'wriggling free'. But there IS an enourmous amount of internalised misogyny. And I feel you, as it's def projected outward, has external ramifications, and contributes to the erasure of Woman. I just do my best to claim, embody and own my femininity (both in its softness and it;s power), in a way that is authentic to me. True femininity (not the performative ish) triggers the hell out of people, sometimes more than any gender-diverse people do. To be a woman is to be hated. (At this current time). It takes enourmous courage to BE A WOMAN. If we can find that, hold it, own it, eventually, I find, other women can feel safe, let go of their defense mechanisms, and be on some primal/nervous system level reminded of who they are, and relax into it.
I feel like this is all I can do. Obviously its a FAR more nuanced conversation, but I hear you and I understand you.
Thank you for this much needed post. I almost got roped into becoming a they/them in the hopes I would be treated better. But thats not reality. Men are still gonna them nonbinarys as women no matter what. There’s no escape. There’s only pushing back.
Women who put themselves first and protect each other are needed now more than ever
You don’t understand!!!
They’re PEOPLE not WOMEN! Don’t Ever call them a woman! Woman is such a dirty word to them.
but in all seriousness, I don’t know what we can do. I’ve mentioned in other comments that I do try and talk about this in my everyday life with a few lib fem friends and they hate it. But they genuinely don’t believe in sex anymore. Nor care about sex based rights. We aren’t even gen z , we didn’t grow up with this. We’re millennials.
Right now I believe a lot of this stuff is just a trend. There’s evidence that young women and girls transitioning is a SOCIAL CONTAGION. So it’s a harmful fad. But could have life long consequences, which is why it’s so scary.
I think the general public is starting to wake up a bit so maybe things will change. But by then I don’t think we will have anything, we’ll be living in some handmaids tale dystopian society.
It’s conflicting because with all movements (feminism, classism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc ), oppression and discrimination happen but they take different forms and have different histories.
I think we have a duty to be mindful of where we do and do not have privileges. Spaces are meant to focus on specific issues and dialogues. People can come and go from that space, but the conversations are typically focused to a limited set of topics. It is problematic when other groups try to divert the conversation. There can be similarities between biological and trans women in discriminations they face, but there are also some very obvious differences. So long as they respect the topics of conversation at hand (even if it’s nit an issue they face), then I’m okay with their presence. As a straight women, I don’t think it is my place to go to a trans forum and divert their conversations to issues that non trans women face. I expect the same treatment from trans women.