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of the same age range. I was sort of taken aback by him mentioning it, but he went on to say it's not like it was an incel/misogynistic article and he's on my side always. He said the study reads that a lot of men in their 20s have replaced real sex with porn use and that he found that sad. + said men need to get their shit together. Said women just generally get into more relationships than men and some women tend to date older. Said it made sense, but thinks it's sad that our society is not well adjusted enough to just date people our own age.
My own comments included things like it's sad that even if women are having more sex, we are receiving less orgasms. - a lot of the times because of how selfish men are in bed and porn use further teaches men to only care about themselves. He said he agrees, but also think it's just biologically more difficult for women to orgasm. I responded if that's true, it's still no excuse for men to not try to figure it out and he said that I'm right about that.
He seemed to almost not believe though that most men are not thoughtful in bed and claimed that maybe i look at things glass half empty or I'm "jaded" because I've been hurt by the wrong men so much in my youth. I looked at him and said I'm just trying to be realistic and protective of myself. Before I became "jaded", men would take advantage of me. He took that word back and said if he were me and went through my experiences, he'd actually hate men so much more than I do and that he sees that I don't in spite of how cautious I've become around males. I said again that I think and have experienced that more men are self serving than he realizes before dropping it.
I said I find age gaps predatory, then he asked me if I think there's any thing wrong with a guy in his 30s dating a woman in her 20s. I quickly pointed out that yeah, especially if she's 20 and he's 30. He said he thinks so too and feels after 25 is when it isn't so creepy. (I sort of still find it potentially creepy after 25 and not the best idea.) 5 - 7 years older feels like a limit for me in my 20s, more than that concerns me. And I've heard how age gap relationships still are tough for women after their 20s as older men begin to expect their younger woman to take care of them (nurse and a purse I think was the term I've seen on FDS).
Any how. I don't know why this convo kind of left me feeling the ick a little?? Maybe I just didn't understand what point he was trying to make by bringing up the article? I have sexual trauma so I was naturally sensitive on the topic as I'm sure some guys read that statistic and use it to make misogynistic points. I don't feel like he was intending to use it that way and sounded more like he was interested or just trying to be observational. Yet something still felt a bit off about the convo.
Maybe I'm tripping out and overthinking it. Maybe I just have the ick from thinking about how fucked up sex relations can be between men and women? He did tell me he's sad for men who use porn to fill an empty void, but wasn't trying to feel sorry for them in a "poor men" way + agrees with me that a lot of the times, "men are the problem". So perhaps I don't have to worry about it? I'm sorry, I don't know why him bringing up that article had me feeling so strange.
He was feeling you out. That’s why you got the ick. It sounds like he’s close to getting it, but still doesn’t.
He never considered that women are dating each other instead of older men. That speaks to his worldview.
It seems like he pretends to agree with you after knowing your opinion, not what he actually thinks. Don't be so open about your views, be vague, otherwise men tell you what you want to hear, find out what he actually thinks.
'He said he agrees, but also think it's just biologically more difficult for women to orgasm.' Cope for men who can't make women orgasm. Major ew.
He seems to be mirroring you a lot in this conversation, could this be why you are getting the ick? He seems to express his true opinion and then backs down to match what you are saying.
Is it really not a misogynistic article, though? Sounds like one of those articles that the "men's rights" types would use as "proof" that, waaah, women have it so much easier, waaaah.
Because the typical male view is that sex = good. But you rightly point out it's not always good for women. How much exploitation is counted as just "sex" in this article's statistics, I wonder? The sex industry alone could be a big reason for a lot of young women technically having "more sex" than young men their age (who are far less likely to be sexually exploited).
Yeah, I really hope there's women dating each other in those stats, because at least that's more likely to be enjoyable for the women.
Reading this I got the ick as well.
Some red flags for me:
"He said he agrees, but also think it's just biologically more difficult for women to orgasm."
This being brought up at all in a conversation about women experiencing fewer orgasms (in heterosexual sex) is a big red flag for me. He brought it up because, in his head, it's a logical and normal reason for women having fewer orgasms.
The times I've had good/(what should be) normal sex with men, it was ME who was having multiple orgasms. Because, you know, our bodies are more able to than men's are. So the logic he brought up doesn't even make sense, it's just patriarchical. And he's not aware of it.
While I'm happy he "balanced it out" by saying positive/affirming things too, if I hear a man say something like this, I see someone that I would need to deprogram before I'd consider dating them. For me that's not worth the effort.
"He seemed to almost not believe though that most men are not thoughtful in bed >>>and claimed that maybe i look at things glass half empty or I'm "jaded" because I've been hurt by the wrong men so much in my youth.<<<"
Super big ick right here. He doesn't understand your experience of men, so I guess the logical thing to think is.... It must be her own issues with men, so she's imagining that they're so bad? Cause that isn't my experience of men and myself so I'm sure it can't be that bad.
Even if he really is genuine in the nice stuff he said, to see that his default when he doesn't understand you, is to think that it's probably you who's seeing things, is a big big red flag. He's got work to do and there are plenty of sources out there that can help him with that. I hope he doesn't seek that in dates instead..
Listen to your gut! :)
Also this was a date who said this right? You didn't specify so just wanted to double check.
That's a whole lot of, "He said he agreed, BUT..." How exhausting. He's not really agreeing with you. This is a tactic attorneys use while interrogating witnesses to get them to loosen up before they go heavy into entrapment.
My stance is always and will always be that OP’s gut feeling is what matters. Even if everyone replying said this was fine and completely unproblematic, OP would still be “feeling the ick a little.” Sure we can debate the details but the very fact OP came here to ask the question is the main ref flag.
I doubt it. women are called whores for having occasional sex as a single woman, they are whores when they cheat, dirty disposable sluts when they are horny but men are seen as humans with these kind of emotions. Women's worth are measured with how many times she had sex while men aren't judged by that. When men cheat and leave a woman with children behind it's the wives fault somehow but if a woman is a homewrecker or cheats she's a whore for life and the whole town knows about it.
When a woman wants sex she's expected to wait and find a man who wants a relationship with her but a man can lie his way into her bed or wave with a 50$ bill for some sex with a sex worker while nobody meddles with that.
With other words men wrong doings are a mistake but women are bad.
Stop engaging with this scrote. He's talking nonsense. Block and delete.
But seriously, what a load of MRA bs! I'm 24 and out of my close friends, half haven't slept with any guy yet, the other half with only one boyfriend or ex. I think it's a fact that people in general are having way less sex than they used to.
I mean, when my Grandma was my age she had two children for two different men.
The only universal problem here is porn because it makes men lazy, pornsick, and literally undateable.
You're not overthinking, he's a creep who is both mirroring your responses so you'll think he shares your values AND gaslighting you about your own lived experiences (i.e. you're jaded, you're overreacting, the problem is women are broken not that men are selfish in bed).
I don't know who this guy is to you. If he's a "friend", he's not your friend, he's trying to sleep with you. If he's your boyfriend, he's trying to control you.
NO MAN who brings up sex in conversation does it with good intentions, unless you're already sleeping together or he's your doctor asking reasonable questions related to your health.
The men in my life now NEVER EVER bring up sex. No comments about their sex lives, nothing about my sex life or traumas I've experienced with men, nothing about porn, no articles they just read with interesting facts about orgasms. NOTHING.
The only guys who've ever brought up sex to me are no longer in my life. I learned the hard way through repeated experience in my 20s that these men always had an agenda they eventually revealed later via attempts to cheat, harassment, or assault. Don't stick around to find out.
He's trying to feel you out to see if you're available for sex, and he's doing it in a way that's manipulative and checking you for weaknesses. Do you have any traumas? Will you argue with him because you need his validation? Will you buy it when he tells you that men's abuse is your fault? In short, are you easy to manipulate?
I would rethink your relationship with this guy, whatever it is.
>He said he agrees, but also think it's just biologically more difficult for women to orgasm.
Who wants to tell him WLW have the most orgasms of any demographic?
The reason straight women aren't orgasming is because men are selfish, not because women are broken.
Exactly. In my own experience, the most generous lovers have met so many women who were surprised by their generosity and thus these men were the most aware of the laziness/selfishness we encounter.
He’s a closet sexist. When he convinces you to write a post questioning yourself, believe your instincts.
While some good men genuinely do not realize how bad it is for women, I suspect you feel the ick because this guy may not be so sincere. Like someone else mentioned the conversation involved you telling him your opinion first, which showed he may have indeed mirrored you. Also, I get the vibe you feel like you had to justify yourself to him, like go into your own experiences. It gave me the ick too. It reminds me a bit of those "civil" debate trolls who specifically go on forums to express doubt and debate about whether or not a woman's lived traumatic experience with men was legitimate or not. "But I just want to debate" types of men who may make a big show of "ohhhhh, I get it!" But it just seems... empty.
Listen to your ick. In my experience every time I tried to stay and rationalize the ick, it turned into a weight that would never lift. And then I would find more red flags. I genuinely didn't and still don't believe so many men should have all these red flags making them undatable, but here we are...
Takeaways: use dumb fox, never give away your position on issues and ask him first, men who come in good faith and like you will be more likely to believe you rather than the stupid debate-y crap. I can just imagine this guy saying "well maybe what happened to you from other guys wasn't that bad" or "you disagreed with me because those other guys damaged you" rhetoric. When you share trauma with a man-- never do it. Because a lot use it against you eventually.
men will do anything to sleep with you it’s insane
Psychology Today is not a source I’d trust anyway. There are lots of articles there trying to gaslight women into accepting porn, communicate about polyamory, and the like. If a gross man goes looking for validation there, he’s bound to find it. I’d steer around anyone who was using it for anything other than therapist shopping, because in some areas it’s the only way you can find a therapist.
There's a comedian called Cameron Geller and he does various different characters as part of his comedy skits. This guy reminds me of Timothy Bichboy.
More sex does not automatically equate with more sexual satisfaction.
It really is that simple.
Sex is a difficult subject, and given your previous experiences, don't beat yourself up for being worried!
I'd say that bringing up that article can either be inappropriate or an interesting topic of conversation depending on how long you have been seeing each other and context. If it's an excuse to introduce sex too early into the conversation, icky, but maybe in a more established "dating process" I guess speaking about each other's views around sex can be interesting and also a vetting tool.
"He seemed to almost not believe though that most men are not thoughtful in bed and claimed that maybe... I'm jaded because I've been hurt by the wrong men...".
I have to admit my boyfriend also kind of finds hard to believe that there are men that do not enjoy focusing on their partner's pleasure. In a sense, I guess it can be a green flag...? The fact that he finds hard to picture someone not caring about their partner's needs, because caring seems obvious to him. At the same time, I don't like the implication that your bad experiences are somehow the result of a bad decision or poor taste or bad luck or something like that. It is men's fault, and the orgasm gap, among other statistics, shows it.
Depending on your relationship with him, and if you have the energy to do it, maybe you could re-introduce the topic and see how he behaves, and whether the previous conversations changed his views in any way. Does he asks respectful questions, and listens, and tries to understand? No matter how caring and empathetic a man is, I guess it is hard for them to picture the full extent of what women have to go through. In fact, if a man said to me "oh I absolutely understand what you have gone through", I would consider it a red flag. What I nowadays value most in men is how they treat me. Secondly, and regarding feminist topics such as sex, I value the willingness to listen, to respectfully disagree, and to finally admit they were in the wrong. Oh and also the ability be thankful for the privilege of getting to expand their worldview. :)