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Thank you for everyone’s insight in my last post about my long term friend Kate, I have taken it all on board. I agree with those that said she might have an undiagnosed condition like adhd or autism. She has now apologized a lot for the mishap of her withholding money from me and upsetting me. We had an open discussion about the situation and previous problems I've experienced in our friendship, I even tried gently asking her why she might be this way (lack communication, planning, gratitude, etc) so I know for the future. Her explanation is a bit meh to me, here's an overview:
She does nothing and never offers to help because apparently I invite her to these events/parties/trips/etc and therefore she's a "GUEST" on these things, even if it's just us two🤡. She "takes the back seat to be easy going". Then, if she invites me, she assumes I want to take charge since I'm the more "dominant" and "controlling" one 🤡. Her proposed solution is that I have to be more direct, patient and persistent with her, reminding her I need help in something (as if I don't nag and wait enough!). I emphasised how this behaviour has made the friendship harder, not easier. Even our travel mates have previously complained about her, that she was like dead weight: missing deadlines, delaying everyone and needing to be dragged around or nagged.
She justifies her lack of gratitude (never saying thank you or recognising my efforts) and her lack of communication as due to her busy full time job as an EA and for sometimes being tired or absent-minded. I thought this was ironic because she's trying to justify dumping all the workload on her friend (me) who is literally in law and has way more commitments. Again, she suggests that I need to remind/pester her more "because she's a very busy woman" and I shouldn't be upset if she ghosts or doesn't thank me... because she promises this is due to forgetfulness, not a lack of value or appreciation for me.
She suggests another solution, which is that she pays for everything from now on. However it’s not because she failed to pull her weight in the past but because I “lack the expertise she has as an EA” (Kate, I’m not incapable of organizing, you just don't do anything!!). She believes this is good because at least I remember to pay people back.
Since I expressed my pain (feeling as though she doesn’t value me as a friend), apparently I've committed character assassination 🤡. According to her, my feelings have led to false and defamatory statements (implying she's a “bad and malicious person”) and ruined her reputation, when I never said such thing- I only said I felt ignored and unappreciated... I already reassured her previously that it’s the treatment and not the person that I dislike, but she believes I've spread lies about how she values me. I took this as maybe she's feeling personally attacked? Like she’s defensive because maybe she’s never been called out or felt shame/guilt like this before.
Lastly, she believes that all this has been completely uncalled for, she thought we were all happy at my birthday dinner and that she “even bought me a present” which showed she cared for me (I asked for no presents, but she got me a candle). But she's referring to the dinner that started this uproar in the first place, by ignoring me and not paying me back for several weeks 🤡. Kate and Ella both tell me I should've sorted this in-person after the concert rather than cancelling, giving Kate my ticket and telling her to go with someone else. Again, I had to justify myself that I just felt so upset and physically ill I just didn't want to see Kate anymore.
I clarified and corrected a few things (like the character assassination thing) and reassured her again. She followed with a long heartfelt message about how Ella and I are her best (and only) friends which she hoped would last forever. She reminisced about the last 12 years, talks of the future like weddings or being aunties to our future children, etc. I listened and empathized, and then we agreed to take 2 weeks no contact. I’ve muted her for now, focussing on my bf, other friends/family, my busy life, etc. I imagine she’ll be focussing on work and confide in Ella.
Overall, she’s optimistic, saying she’s glad we’ve cleared everything and wants to start afresh from now on. Maybe it’s because I haven’t processed everything yet, but I’m definitely not as optimistic as her because I don't think I accept any of her justifications in the 5 points above. I can't have a friend that thinks like that!
My other friendships are so rewarding and HV. Whereas this is so one-sided and LOW VALUE, but I’m mindful that this could be due to a potential undiagnosed mental condition, as you guys have pointed out. It's not my job, and I've been astronomically patient/understanding with her, should I even reach out to her family/Ella and ask if Kate's been tested in the past? Is there hope for this friendship? I'm struggling to see that. I think Kate is completely oblivious to her actions and the way she thinks or comes across to others.
I’m disheartened to hear that Kate and I clearly have different understandings about friendship. I expect equal/reciprocal treatment, care, gratitude and recognition from my friends. Meanwhile, it seems she expects her friends to do everything unless they say otherwise (and then nag her constantly until she actually does something) and we’re not supposed to expect much in return?? This is far from what my HV friends are like! I think I've done the best I could, I don't regret anything I said to her, I'm not going to entertain this anymore and I'll just let her go.
Hmm. Friendships are tricky when you grow older and maybe start to grow apart. Maybe this friendship has run its course.
Yes, it has run its course. Her whole word salad is ingenuine and manipulative.
A LV friendship like this is unfortunately deadweight.
She’s unwilling to take notice about what you’re saying or care about your feelings, and is making you seem like the bad guy for highlighting issues that she’s created. She isn’t oblivious to her actions.. making up excuses, gaslighting your feelings, pushing blame on you, and emotionally manipulating you (Point 4 is utter nonsense on her part!)
This is why communicating how you feel with LV people, is pointless. Neither do they take notice about how they make you feel (a good friend would do that) or accountability for their actions, and they actively manipulate and make you feel bad about wanting to resolve problems.
The long heartfelt message is also to emotionally draw you in.
It also sounds like you’re projecting empathy here, thinking she’s got a undiagnosed mental health condition.. She’s bulshitting left, right and centre.
I see gaslighting and manipulation instead of real apologies and taking responsibility. She sounds more like a typical man-baby that wants you to explain how to treat you right and function like a normal human being. Her condition, if she really has one, is unfortunate but she will not change unless she either gets professional help or is forced to because she cannot get further with how she behaves now. I think this friendship will not make you happy in the long run and the term "dead weight" is very fitting for her.
Your point 1 tells you she knows exactly what she is doing and that she is using you. She is a guest when you invite her, yet when she invites you it doesn't switch around and she admits this? That doesn't fly with me.
Honestly didn't read after this, ending things is the only way to protect yourself from more hurt and manipulation.
Well... She's still not taking any responsibility whatsoever and remains blissfully ignorant of how her behavior affects others, even after she has been explicitly told. This almost rules out neurodivergence for me, because ND women are usually hyperaware of how they're not "fitting in" and learn to mask heavily. I had hope that she would admit to her struggles and be open to constructive solutions, but alas, she didn't do that. So I think it's best to let her go.
This gal sucks at life and doesn't deserve your friendship anymore.
Her reply is tangible proof she's manipulative and disingenuous. She knows exactly what she's doing.
It's too bad, but this friendship has run its course. Redirect that energy into yourself and cultivating new HV friendships. Good luck!
Sounds like bullcrap
Yeah, she's still an asshole.
You sure do try hard though. All this endless cOmMuniCaTioN--this could also read as a relationship with a scrote. She certainly gaslights like a scrote, while you tie yourself in knots trying to get her to understand your point of view. And clearly, the only person she cares about is herself. People who value their friends don't treat them the careless way she has treated you.
Getting new friends would be so much easier than dealing with this gaslighting and nonsense. This friendship has run its course. Time to save both your energy, and your dignity, and leave Kate in the past.
It hurts to lose a longtime friend like that, but yes, I agree that it has run its course and you've at least got the chance to see how nasty she can get when she doesn't get things her way. That is not the type of friend you should be hanging around with, or growing old with.
I get it. Back then, I was "that friend" who loved helping her friends out and did everything she could to get her friends out of a jam or to let her cry on her shoulder. At the time, I was happy to feel the connection and the intimacy these friendships gave me. However, it has (ironically this was also a pattern in my love life) shown me in the end that I was giving so much of myself away because I thought that's what you were supposed to do in order to be loved. It did not come from a genuine place, but from a sense of desperation.
When I lost a longtime friend from high school, it really devastated me. She made me out to be this horrendous friend who has done nothing good for her at all. When she would have a horrible break up, or was cheated on, or something bad happened at her home, I was the one who caught her when she spiraled and fell. The other friends she had were just party people who just wanted to have a good time. When she was in a bad headspace, she was no longer fun for them, so they just ignored her until she calmed down. But I was the one who heard her and made her felt seen.
It was years later that she reached out on Facebook to apologize for abandoning me. Her life became absolutely horrible after she ghosted/dumped me as a friend. Everybody pretty much either abandoned her or betrayed her deeply. It really was like one of those really bitter movie scenes where you are just... crying... and just so wanting for a happy ending... but instead, you just can't trust that person anymore. So I listened to her one last time, and we never spoke again.
You are an amazing friend, OP. You have HV friends who are also amazing friends to you. You are extremely lucky to have that! This Kate unfortunately just cannot give you what you want. Imagine if she was a man you were dating, and he did all the things Kate has done to make you so stressed out and crying in frustration. What would you do? You'd dump him, of course.
She'll do everything she can to pull your heartstrings if you decide to let her go. Don't. She'll try to come back into your life with some fake "emergency" and says she'll need you to be there for her. Don't. She will send this other mutual friend to talk you into talking to her again. Once again... Don't.
Her speech about how she sees you, her, and Ella going to each other's weddings, and having children together, etc, etc sounds like she likes the idea of friendship, but is unwilling (or unable) to engage in the type of reciprocal relationship that close friends have. In other words, she likes the idea of having you as a friend more than she actually likes you as a friend.
If she were a real friend, how you feel would be important to her. And if how you feel is important to her, she would apologize and actually try her best to avoid making you feel unappreciated and disrespected in the future. She wouldn't make excuses, and suggest an over the top "solution" like always planning outings from now on (because "it's obvious you need her expertise as an EA" 🙃 I'm amazed she even manages to hold down a job as an EA, as spacy as she is). You never asked for her help in organizing outings, you asked her to pay you back right away. That's what she should have been focusing on.
The part about assasination of character doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Does she think you were the one who chased her other friends away? Or is she just getting defensive over being told that her behavior is inappropriate?
And the excuse she gave about "I didn't think I had to pay because you invited me, and I was a guest" is pretty suspect: she invited you to her birthday dinner-turned-trip, and then sat there saying she shouldn't have to pay for anything because "she's the birthday girl". How is she applying that logic to her birthday trip, but not to your birthday dinner?
Anyway, there is a lot to unpack here, but overall I think you're well justified in not wanting to spend any more time with her. Friends (especially close friends) should add to your life, not take away from it. There's nothing wrong with helping out a friend who's going through a hard time, but their friendship should be an overall positive in your life. If you don't want to cut her off completely, you could just distance yourself from her, and hold her at arm's length. Like a work acquaintence, or something.
Dump this friend and the relief will be tenfold bc it’ll be a huge weight off your shoulders and you’ll have the energy she drained from you back. You’re pouring too much of yourself already trying to mend this friendship that she keeps sobatoging in the first place.
Like everyone else said, her responses are so manipulative and gaslighting that its not worth communicating with her at all. Please choose yourself and the HV relations you do have