It’s an absolute no-go! There is nothing FDS about a friends with benefits situation. A lot of women play this game of thinking that sleeping with a man for fun is just that: fun and they think that they can use men the way they use us. News flash: you can’t. You will eventually fall for him and wonder why he doesn’t want anything serious with you.
Also, if a man proposes you and him become FWBs, please know that he has no respect for you because a man that respects a woman and feels she’s "the one" for him would never suggest that they have sex a number of times until he maybe makes her his girlfriend. If the woman suggests FWBs then be aware that most men will say yes because which man wouldn't want sex without any strings attached?
If you are going to do this (which I don’t recommend as it’s not FDS) you would need to be ironclad in your values, boundaries and in protecting yourself physically and sexually, and naming to yourself why exactly this type of relationship appeals to you. What is your end goal? If you go in hoping at all that these men will give you a relationship or that they will protect or care about you the same way they would a wife or girlfriend, I would think twice, and then twice again. I would also examine yourself and your healing and ask if the healed version of you would actually want this and is this setting you up for success in your life going forward. I'd be willing to bet that after you've addressed that (and spend more time on this forum) you would quickly realize that this is not the way, speaking from personal experience.
Men who typically advocate for this type of relationship are the ones that benefit, not women. Period, point blank. There is no security for you, and you would be exposed to and at risk of far more health complications in terms of disease or pregnancy. That's not even getting into the risks of what men can and will do when you allow them access to you, no strings attached, in your most vulnerable state.
Shit, even prostitutes make men pay. A prostitute is benefiting more than you here (and as we know, they are all horribly abused...).
If sex is all you are interested in as well it may benefit you (does he even make you cum though??), for me personally that is way too much risk to take with someone who wouldn't even date me in the first place. What happens if you get pregnant (in this economy, with abortion being illegal in many places???) or become infertile from STD's? What happens when he stops talking to you for the girl he was actually interested in? What happens if he refuses to wear condoms and the burden of birth control is on YOU? Are you both regularly getting checked? Do you even know if he would tell you the truth about getting himself checked? At this point it sounds like as much work as an actual relationship, so why not be in an actual relationship? How are you actually benefitting from this? The moment you start having sex with anyone you have to think about these things, whether you are in a relationship or not, because life does not give a shit if you are "just FWB's".
Take a poke around this thread too and you may some enlightening answers from the "other" side:
One man phrased it as "all the sex with none of the relationship....awesome." Another said "Why wouldn't we like free sex...?" Lastly, "the lack of commitment implies that the relationship is disposable".
Is that really what you want? "For free?" "DISPOSABLE?"
I recommend the rose vibrator from Amazon as a good substitute. ;)
I feel the only way this could work, is if you were extremely selfish about the sex. Meaning, the dude only ate you out. But you never fuck him or suck his dick in return. He eats you out then you kick him out. Otherwise it's a no go.
this,100%. he can also provide the beautiful bed and atmosphere also, because i don't know about you ladies, but i can't orgasm unless i feel safe and comfy.
and even so, friendship would have nothing to do with it. this arrangement needs another name, "male concubine arrangement" or something. 😂
A woman couldnt possibly benefit from a FWB situation, given the low quality of the men who want a FWB. Since there's no female benefit, I dont think it could be FDS aligned.
Not necessarily - there's an entire chapter in the book Cheap Sex about this. One of the central theses of the book is that good sex for women and men is "expensive" ie requires a significant amount of emotional, social, sexual, and (for men) financial investment. One of the interesting points the author made was how even the *hope* of a relationship with the sexual partner leads women to report better sex. Further, women in relationships, on the whole, orgasm more frequently than women outside of them (now, is that saying a ton considering the orgasm gap? maybe not. but the data was compelling to me at least)
Either way, IMO. I’ve had good lovers as FWB and bad lovers as actual boyfriends.
This isn’t supposed to be such a narrow false dichotomy.
Unknown member
Apr 10, 2023
"Friends with benefits" is for suckers. Women who don't respect themselves giving sex away to men who don't care for them, don't respect them, and think of them as easy pussy--and for what? What is there for a woman in that scenario? What exactly is the "benefit"? A man who doesn't care for a woman is not motivated to make sex good for her. So, sub-par sex with lack of orgasms? A scrote snoring and farting in your sheets after the mediocre sex is over? What "benefits"? There are ways to get the need for touch or companionship or orgasms satisfied without bringing a scrote who doesn't respect you into it.
If she's having a good time and purely using a guy for her sexual pleasure, then props to her. But for the most part, it's usually the other way around.
consequences & can be life threatening for women. RISKS are far more severe for us compared to men. I don't have the energy to elaborate but you can definitely do a Google search regarding how STDs affect men vs women. The onus of birth control is on the woman. Your body will suffer the consequences and side effects of birth control, not the man's body. He gets to enjoy himself to the physical detriment of your body. Birth control is not 100% effective, and the risk of pregnancy is reason enough not to be in FWB situation. Yes in some countries women have access to abortion but the emotional and physical trauma that comes with it is never talked about. If you choose to keep the pregnancy, you risk your body and your life, stretch marks, etc, permanent changes to your body. Most women who are mothers tell me after the child is born is actually much harder than giving birth itself. Breastfeeding is for instance is incredibly difficult and exhausting not to mention the lack of sleep. And you may end up doing this as a single mum.
The man gets only the fun part in all this.
Women cannot use men the way they use us. This is a liberal feminist delusion we are brainwashed with.
Women also bond through sex. Oxytocin, a bonding hormone is released when women have sex with a man, this is the same hormone that is released when mothers are breastfeeding their child. So you'll be bonded to a scrote. It's easier to kid ourselves and say we won't get attached but most of us do get attached to men we keep having sex with for this reason. Men don't bond through sex, they bond through trust. They have to love and trust you before sex.
In my Pickme days I too was brainwashed by libfem delusions l and thought I could look at men like conquests and use them too. That delusion was shattered in the most painful ways imaginable, it changed me forever.
Don't do it. It's not worth it. I caution you out of care, I don't want another want to go through this. We don't all have to learn the hard way.
This comment is LV and taken out of context. One of the ways a lot of women can bond to a scrote is through consistently sleeping with him because oxytocin is released. I did not imply it's the only way. It's an example cautioning OP against FWB. Most men who want to be FWB will not appreciate her intellect even if she appreciates his. They are not looking to bond with a woman. Please stop your low value trolling behaviour and go read the handbook. The way men treat us is bad enough and you don't need to behave like a Reddit troll on here. I think women would be more receptive to you respectfully disagreeing and stating why, as opposed to dealing your insecurities posted on our threads.
Nobody said a woman's worth is based on How much sex she has had. And how many men she has slept with does NOT lower a woman's value. What a random and absurd way to derail the conversation. I think you must be a male troll on here And you probably think that it does diminish her worth since you brought it up. A woman's worth as a human being cannot be delavued by having sex or how many partners she has.
My argument is that most men don't deserve sex and most men are supposed to die virgins. Why don't you move to Reddit since you do not agree with FDS values.
My only advice to OP is that it's far better to have a committed man who truly loves you, treats you to expensive dinners, takes care of you, paying your rent, bills finances and emotional needs if you're going to start sleeping with him. It's a privilege for men to sleep with us. The least they can do it commit & provide. And even that still pales in comparison to the risks we as women take sleeping with a man.
FWB is giving a man free sex for free without getting anything back in return. Just get a wonderful vibrator that will make you happy without giving you the headache 😅
11
Unknown member
Apr 10, 2023
In a romantic/sexual relationship, in order for a woman to have a chance of feeling moderately satisfied, the man has to give 100%. He needs to be totally invested emotionally, socially, and financially, and even then, he may not fulfill the woman's requirements for the relationship.
A man who wants FWB will absolutely not give 100%. He'll probably give 50% or less. Therefore, a woman in an FWB situation with a man will have 0% chance of being satisfied.
I did the FWB thing in my 20s so you don't have to. For your own sake, please avoid FWB relationships.
Any woman who is that desperate for male physical attention should first be able to get the :::bare minimum::: respect of having him ask her out first. Bare minimum! Talk is cheap and would cost him nothing to say the words. And yet, patriarchy has conditioned women not to even require some simple words first. Women have literally been socially conditioned at this point to behave as unpaid escorts and naive sidechicks.
As for FDS’ take, the Hanbook at page 3 discusses finding a “dependable FWB.” Quoting the Handbook Re: FWB's: "Don't have sex before he has demonstrated value and investment." So FDS condones this nonsense. However, I really think in the main, FDS in 2023 sees what a scam FWB’s/situationships truly are. (Similar to how online dating in 2023 is now seen by FDS as much more toxic than O.G. FDS used to see it.)
this is a really excellent point. as society evolves, so should FDS perspectives, or at least we need to look at how FDS perspectives apply to changing social institutions.
It can be considered FW-"B" only if you receive orgasms safely everytime. That is the whole benefit that the agreement of FWB talks about.
FDS does not support FWB because in most cases women do not benefit from it at all and rather end up getting dehumanized.
But if you guarantee the "benefit" for yourself as a woman (not just the perceived possible benefit) you can make it work, I guess. You need to mandatorily make sure you're not just settling for FWB in hopes of turning it into a relationship later.
There also need to be absolute boundaries about when, where and how - while keeping your safety and security in mind as a woman.
8
Unknown member
Apr 10, 2023
Replying to
Well, what if you never orgasmed with another person and he’s the only one that ever got you THAT close and that he “vigilant” about making me cum? What if I need to keep practicing? I’m serious..
When I was in my late 20's/early 30's, finishing my PhD, about to stop living in one country and thinking about where to go next, prioritising myself, my happiness, and my career, I thought, hey, maybe it'd be fun to go on some dates. I'd already been very FDS-aligned and ironclad in how I expected to be treated, so how this manifested was some very secure dating behaviour on my part that led to me having a great time with some lovely men. No, I don't mean they texted me late at night to "come over". I mean men who would hold doors open for me, pay for dinners, make me laugh, and treat me with respect. Every single one of them was angling to be my boyfriend; one even proposed... but I had an expiration date in MY head, because hey, I was finishing my PhD and thought teaching English in South America for a year would be fun, and I was damned if I aas gunna let some guy get in my way 😂
You can have fun without being disrespected. Don't do friends with benefits. Dating's supposed to be fun anyway, just do that. Don't stress, men are an infinite resource. There are always gunna be single, well-adjusted, cute, funny, handsome men out there. Just use your head and you'll find them eventually.
7
Unknown member
Jun 20
Replying to
Can I ask how you found these men? I'm averse to online dating but meeting guys IRL is so hard!
Unknown member
Apr 09, 2023
Thanks for your answers, everyone! Its made me wonder now what the difference is between FWB and a casual relationship 🤔
I think it is touched on on one of the podcasts. FWBs/casual relationships only apply if you definitely don't want a relationship. It applies in some cases, e.g. older women or women who have kids and don't want a man near their children. And if you go down that path, you need to vet in the same way as you would for a relationship (especially when it comes to safety). You probably wouldn't be concerned with things like earning potential, or whether he wants kids. And he has to be 100% trustworthy and loyal to you and not sleep with other people or give you STDs.
Downsides include one or both parties deciding they actually want a relationship (with the other person or someone else). Be warned, men in FWB situations can suddenly start calling you their "girlfriend" and trying to introduce you to their parents. And then get salty when you remind them that you just want to be "FWBs". Other problems include the dude sleeping with 5 different women without telling you, and also possibly being in "a relationship" with one of them. It can be a real mess, and with all that effort, the FDS philosophy is why not go for an actual relationship, where he commits to you, fixes your blinds and pays for dinner?
This conversation always feels extremely paradoxical. Whenever I hear women mention becoming emotionally attached because they had sex with a man…is it because the man is giving them orgasms?? Because it seems like the main argument is always “he won’t try to give you orgasms unless he wants a relationship with you”… but as far as I understand it, many (unsure if most?) women in relationships aren’t having good sex…except now they feel obligated to have sex with their man (because that’s a condition of a relationship) rather than seeking it out on their own terms. I guess I don’t understand how that is preferable. It feels to me like a relationship amplifies the unfairness of the disparity in sexual desire styles and orgasms of women and men.
I think it's pretty much the default relationship type for most couplings and in most cases people would probably be happier sticking with that rather than trying to force a serious relationship due to internal or external societal pressures? The "?" is because I'm basing this on my own admittedly fairly limited observations of couples, but I feel like it's pretty common that people--maybe especially women?--don't even like their partners all that much. I feel like one major shortcoming of FDS is the focus on how a man feels about you and ignoring of how you feel about a man...but it seems the latter is probably more of a contributing factor to individual happiness and life satisfaction (we accept that giving benefits one more than receiving in other arenas of life, right?) While it's certainly possible to learn to love someone over time, I'm not sure how worthwhile of a goal that is in this modern era...well, maybe the most compelling reason would be the cost of rent?
Unknown member
Apr 10, 2023
Replying to
You're quite confused. FDS is most assuredly NOT about focusing on how a man feels about you, and ignoring how you feel about a man. In fact, it's quite the opposite.I think you need to read the handbook, because you don't seem to understand what FDS, at its most basic core, is about.
I have read the “handbook” (if we’re referring to the same thing it doesn’t really warrant that label) and followed the content for quite some time and I do think it’s primarily focused on A. determining whether a man can be a good partner and B. preventing women from getting attached to men who haven't met those requirements...do you disagree? I'm not saying that it's the "intention" as much as a potential hazard one may encounter in trying to apply the strategies, especially if one doesn't have a lot of relationship experience.
Considering how bad men are at sex to begin with i dont see what the women will be benefitting from a fwb. I've heard men throw all types of terms around but it all boils down to them being trash in bed. NSA, FWB, ENM, nope nope nope
5
Unknown member
Apr 11, 2023
I suppose what all this comes down to is where you stand on the "is sex ever just sex?" question.
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It’s an absolute no-go! There is nothing FDS about a friends with benefits situation. A lot of women play this game of thinking that sleeping with a man for fun is just that: fun and they think that they can use men the way they use us. News flash: you can’t. You will eventually fall for him and wonder why he doesn’t want anything serious with you.
Also, if a man proposes you and him become FWBs, please know that he has no respect for you because a man that respects a woman and feels she’s "the one" for him would never suggest that they have sex a number of times until he maybe makes her his girlfriend. If the woman suggests FWBs then be aware that most men will say yes because which man wouldn't want sex without any strings attached?
If you are going to do this (which I don’t recommend as it’s not FDS) you would need to be ironclad in your values, boundaries and in protecting yourself physically and sexually, and naming to yourself why exactly this type of relationship appeals to you. What is your end goal? If you go in hoping at all that these men will give you a relationship or that they will protect or care about you the same way they would a wife or girlfriend, I would think twice, and then twice again. I would also examine yourself and your healing and ask if the healed version of you would actually want this and is this setting you up for success in your life going forward. I'd be willing to bet that after you've addressed that (and spend more time on this forum) you would quickly realize that this is not the way, speaking from personal experience.
Men who typically advocate for this type of relationship are the ones that benefit, not women. Period, point blank. There is no security for you, and you would be exposed to and at risk of far more health complications in terms of disease or pregnancy. That's not even getting into the risks of what men can and will do when you allow them access to you, no strings attached, in your most vulnerable state.
Shit, even prostitutes make men pay. A prostitute is benefiting more than you here (and as we know, they are all horribly abused...).
If sex is all you are interested in as well it may benefit you (does he even make you cum though??), for me personally that is way too much risk to take with someone who wouldn't even date me in the first place. What happens if you get pregnant (in this economy, with abortion being illegal in many places???) or become infertile from STD's? What happens when he stops talking to you for the girl he was actually interested in? What happens if he refuses to wear condoms and the burden of birth control is on YOU? Are you both regularly getting checked? Do you even know if he would tell you the truth about getting himself checked? At this point it sounds like as much work as an actual relationship, so why not be in an actual relationship? How are you actually benefitting from this? The moment you start having sex with anyone you have to think about these things, whether you are in a relationship or not, because life does not give a shit if you are "just FWB's".
Take a poke around this thread too and you may some enlightening answers from the "other" side:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/11s46b/what_do_you_guys_think_of_being_friends_with/?utm_so
One man phrased it as "all the sex with none of the relationship....awesome." Another said "Why wouldn't we like free sex...?" Lastly, "the lack of commitment implies that the relationship is disposable".
Is that really what you want? "For free?" "DISPOSABLE?"
I recommend the rose vibrator from Amazon as a good substitute. ;)
There are no benefits for women except a life lesson
I feel the only way this could work, is if you were extremely selfish about the sex. Meaning, the dude only ate you out. But you never fuck him or suck his dick in return. He eats you out then you kick him out. Otherwise it's a no go.
A woman couldnt possibly benefit from a FWB situation, given the low quality of the men who want a FWB. Since there's no female benefit, I dont think it could be FDS aligned.
"Friends with benefits" is for suckers. Women who don't respect themselves giving sex away to men who don't care for them, don't respect them, and think of them as easy pussy--and for what? What is there for a woman in that scenario? What exactly is the "benefit"? A man who doesn't care for a woman is not motivated to make sex good for her. So, sub-par sex with lack of orgasms? A scrote snoring and farting in your sheets after the mediocre sex is over? What "benefits"? There are ways to get the need for touch or companionship or orgasms satisfied without bringing a scrote who doesn't respect you into it.
The risks of STDs for women have far worse
consequences & can be life threatening for women. RISKS are far more severe for us compared to men. I don't have the energy to elaborate but you can definitely do a Google search regarding how STDs affect men vs women. The onus of birth control is on the woman. Your body will suffer the consequences and side effects of birth control, not the man's body. He gets to enjoy himself to the physical detriment of your body. Birth control is not 100% effective, and the risk of pregnancy is reason enough not to be in FWB situation. Yes in some countries women have access to abortion but the emotional and physical trauma that comes with it is never talked about. If you choose to keep the pregnancy, you risk your body and your life, stretch marks, etc, permanent changes to your body. Most women who are mothers tell me after the child is born is actually much harder than giving birth itself. Breastfeeding is for instance is incredibly difficult and exhausting not to mention the lack of sleep. And you may end up doing this as a single mum.
The man gets only the fun part in all this.
Women cannot use men the way they use us. This is a liberal feminist delusion we are brainwashed with.
Women also bond through sex. Oxytocin, a bonding hormone is released when women have sex with a man, this is the same hormone that is released when mothers are breastfeeding their child. So you'll be bonded to a scrote. It's easier to kid ourselves and say we won't get attached but most of us do get attached to men we keep having sex with for this reason. Men don't bond through sex, they bond through trust. They have to love and trust you before sex.
In my Pickme days I too was brainwashed by libfem delusions l and thought I could look at men like conquests and use them too. That delusion was shattered in the most painful ways imaginable, it changed me forever.
Don't do it. It's not worth it. I caution you out of care, I don't want another want to go through this. We don't all have to learn the hard way.
FWB is giving a man free sex for free without getting anything back in return. Just get a wonderful vibrator that will make you happy without giving you the headache 😅
In a romantic/sexual relationship, in order for a woman to have a chance of feeling moderately satisfied, the man has to give 100%. He needs to be totally invested emotionally, socially, and financially, and even then, he may not fulfill the woman's requirements for the relationship.
A man who wants FWB will absolutely not give 100%. He'll probably give 50% or less. Therefore, a woman in an FWB situation with a man will have 0% chance of being satisfied.
I did the FWB thing in my 20s so you don't have to. For your own sake, please avoid FWB relationships.
Benefits for whom? For him. No thank you.
Any woman who is that desperate for male physical attention should first be able to get the :::bare minimum::: respect of having him ask her out first. Bare minimum! Talk is cheap and would cost him nothing to say the words. And yet, patriarchy has conditioned women not to even require some simple words first. Women have literally been socially conditioned at this point to behave as unpaid escorts and naive sidechicks.
As for FDS’ take, the Hanbook at page 3 discusses finding a “dependable FWB.” Quoting the Handbook Re: FWB's: "Don't have sex before he has demonstrated value and investment." So FDS condones this nonsense. However, I really think in the main, FDS in 2023 sees what a scam FWB’s/situationships truly are. (Similar to how online dating in 2023 is now seen by FDS as much more toxic than O.G. FDS used to see it.)
It can be considered FW-"B" only if you receive orgasms safely everytime. That is the whole benefit that the agreement of FWB talks about.
FDS does not support FWB because in most cases women do not benefit from it at all and rather end up getting dehumanized.
But if you guarantee the "benefit" for yourself as a woman (not just the perceived possible benefit) you can make it work, I guess. You need to mandatorily make sure you're not just settling for FWB in hopes of turning it into a relationship later.
There also need to be absolute boundaries about when, where and how - while keeping your safety and security in mind as a woman.
I'm going to propose something else: dating.
When I was in my late 20's/early 30's, finishing my PhD, about to stop living in one country and thinking about where to go next, prioritising myself, my happiness, and my career, I thought, hey, maybe it'd be fun to go on some dates. I'd already been very FDS-aligned and ironclad in how I expected to be treated, so how this manifested was some very secure dating behaviour on my part that led to me having a great time with some lovely men. No, I don't mean they texted me late at night to "come over". I mean men who would hold doors open for me, pay for dinners, make me laugh, and treat me with respect. Every single one of them was angling to be my boyfriend; one even proposed... but I had an expiration date in MY head, because hey, I was finishing my PhD and thought teaching English in South America for a year would be fun, and I was damned if I aas gunna let some guy get in my way 😂
You can have fun without being disrespected. Don't do friends with benefits. Dating's supposed to be fun anyway, just do that. Don't stress, men are an infinite resource. There are always gunna be single, well-adjusted, cute, funny, handsome men out there. Just use your head and you'll find them eventually.
Thanks for your answers, everyone! Its made me wonder now what the difference is between FWB and a casual relationship 🤔
I think it is touched on on one of the podcasts. FWBs/casual relationships only apply if you definitely don't want a relationship. It applies in some cases, e.g. older women or women who have kids and don't want a man near their children. And if you go down that path, you need to vet in the same way as you would for a relationship (especially when it comes to safety). You probably wouldn't be concerned with things like earning potential, or whether he wants kids. And he has to be 100% trustworthy and loyal to you and not sleep with other people or give you STDs.
Downsides include one or both parties deciding they actually want a relationship (with the other person or someone else). Be warned, men in FWB situations can suddenly start calling you their "girlfriend" and trying to introduce you to their parents. And then get salty when you remind them that you just want to be "FWBs". Other problems include the dude sleeping with 5 different women without telling you, and also possibly being in "a relationship" with one of them. It can be a real mess, and with all that effort, the FDS philosophy is why not go for an actual relationship, where he commits to you, fixes your blinds and pays for dinner?
This conversation always feels extremely paradoxical. Whenever I hear women mention becoming emotionally attached because they had sex with a man…is it because the man is giving them orgasms?? Because it seems like the main argument is always “he won’t try to give you orgasms unless he wants a relationship with you”… but as far as I understand it, many (unsure if most?) women in relationships aren’t having good sex…except now they feel obligated to have sex with their man (because that’s a condition of a relationship) rather than seeking it out on their own terms. I guess I don’t understand how that is preferable. It feels to me like a relationship amplifies the unfairness of the disparity in sexual desire styles and orgasms of women and men.
If you're ice spice and he's a "munch" only. You are risking alot hanging out with sexually needy men
How is that at all aligned with fds?
Considering how bad men are at sex to begin with i dont see what the women will be benefitting from a fwb. I've heard men throw all types of terms around but it all boils down to them being trash in bed. NSA, FWB, ENM, nope nope nope
I suppose what all this comes down to is where you stand on the "is sex ever just sex?" question.