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I was just re-reading the handbook for a refresher since it's been a long time since I first read it. So there's this part about how a man who changed his behaviour after the woman was honest about her standards. So at first he had a LV atittude. Then she let him know she didn't appreciate it and he shifted to HV atittude towards her. He even apologized. By the end of the paragraph, she writes "That’s how you know a man values you."
Now to the title of this post... I've separated into two topics, but they may be very similar.
1. Is he really HV if he changes his original (probably most sincere) behaviour after learning about her standards? I don't know... It comes off as deceiptive when somebody does that because to me their true nature is that of when they feel a little too comfortable. And at some point in a long term relationship, people will get comfortable. So if a man improves his behaviour for one woman, is he still HV? Or is he just trying to deceive you? How do you know he is actually HV in that situation?
2. Is he HV if he treats all women as LV until he finds 'the one'? I expect HVM to treat all women with respect. I mean, I expect them to treat women in general as human beings. If he crosses paths with a pickme, he won't take advantage of her. He'll just avoid her because he isn't interested in LVW. At least that's what makes sense to me. Yes, I want to be special. But I also want a man who understands women are people worthy of respect even if he doesn't want to date them.
I'm still in the process of re-reading the handbook, so perhaps the answers are there already. But I'd like to know your opinion about this.
At my age (late 30s), if a man doesn't know how to treat me right, then I'm not willing to explain* and teach. I am not willing to risk an argument where I have to cOMmUNIcate like a fool and be called all sorts of derogatory names for having standards.
"Correcting" a man about your standards might work with younger men (in their teens and 20s) who haven't had a chance to learn how to treat a woman right, but by the time a man is my age, he has no excuses. Absolutely none. Call it ignorance, LV, deception, whatever--if he interacts with me in an LV manner, he is LV to me, and I block and delete.
*I will add that I do not expect a man to read my mind. If I want to eat, say, sushi, on a random day, I don't expect a man to know without my telling him, even if I like to eat sushi semi-frequently. Having a random, unpredictable preference is different from having a standard.
This is easy.
Answer to question 1: Men change for themselves and no one else. Men who seem to “change” because a woman told them to is acting and will revert to who he actually is when he feels comfortable and feels that she’s comfortable with him. As the saying goes, “when people show you who they are, believe them the first time”. No man is perfect so even HV men will do things we don’t like but if he’s truly HV, when a woman points it out to him, he’ll sincerely apologise and not repeat the behaviour ever again.
Answer to question 2: No, a man is not HV if he mistreats women until he finds who he feels is “the one”. People who treat others badly until they meet people they deem worthy of respect are bad people. Period. Kind, decent, polite people treat everyone they meet the same way. If they don’t like a person, they simply don’t interact with them.
It can depend on the nature of the behavior.
For example:
Did she inform him that he his wardrobe doesn't meet her standards, and so he started to dress better? Having bad instincts about dressing himself is a small character flaw. A woman might be able to overlook that, as long as he tries better out of respect for her.
OR
Does he have a serious character flaw, showing general lack of respect for women, violent tendencies, lack of personal accountability, disinterest in personal development, etc.? If so, he likely cant fix those problems, and wont put in an honest effort to try. Better to get rid of a man like that.
There needs to be some room in a relationship to ask for what you need and for him to do better. No man is going to be perfect all the time. But only for behavior thats excusable.
The answer to both of your questions is no, high value men would not do either of those things. The handbook needs to be updated to reflect that women are to communicate NOTHING to men so they don't use it to lie about having the same values as us. If he treats other women poorly, don't think you'll be his exception for long. Next.
My two cents that if he treat others like crap he is LV. Why? Because he only acts right if he gets something from you. The moment he is annoyed with you or thinks he can do better, he'll revert to his LV ways.
Totally agree that if a man is only gentleman when he's trying to get laid, he's not a gentleman at all.
Great question, and I’m not sure if I have the answer since it’s been a long time since I’ve read the handbook as well.
Personally, I believe that most if not all men will push your boundaries to see what they can get away with. A woman who values herself highly and has strong boundaries, high standards, and good self esteem (tied to herself, not reliant on external validation), will show him right away that he can’t get away with low value behavior or mistreatment of any kind. Usually she will show with her actions, because you shouldn’t give a guy a list of your standards or what you’re looking for in a man.. that will just give him the script to play you with, and tell him exactly what you’ll put up with. It’s better if he sees through your actions what you’re NOT willing to go along with, and forms his own opinion on you having high standards and being of high value in his eyes. He will respect you so much more for putting him in his place and having rock solid boundaries. This all starts with YOU treating yourself well and demonstrating your standards with how you show up for yourself every day.
So, I don’t think it’s explicitly low value for a guy to test you in the early stages to find out how you really view yourself. However: disrespect needs to be nipped in the bud immediately, and if there’s ANY pushback or continued crossing of your boundaries, that signals that he’s actually just trying to break you down enough to give him what he wants quickly, instead of being interested in you as a person and seeing some kind of future with you.
As an example, a guy I dated tried to suggest that I send him sexy pics while we were in the talking stage. He didn’t say anything explicit or derogatory, or bring up sex, and it was during a flirty text conversation so it wasn’t out of the blue. I texted back “Tempting… but I’ll be a good girl today 😇” and he immediately dropped it and never suggested again. I never ended up sending any pics either, and he never complained about it and was very respectful and kind on dates and in private.
Men are really great at asking for what they want, so if they do it in a polite way and don’t push once a boundary has been stated, that doesn’t feel LV to me.
That all said, if a guy starts his interactions with LV behavior, rather than making a polite request after you already know each other enough for that to not feel like an awkward insertion of his sexual desires into an otherwise unsexy conversation… well, if he leads LV, he most likely is just LV and there’s not much point laying out your standards because he has no desire to meet them.