.png)
So, I am a black lady who is Muslim. Therefore I can speak only of this community.
I am been looking for a partner for years and I was rejected constantly first by own African community, then from the others. Mainly for my look (below average), lack of the right degree (Law/Med/Eng, the rest is Disgrace to the family), lack of money (eldest and last few years I spent it paying uni fees for my more traditional siblings to get those golden trio degree, I did it out of love for my parents).
I noticed the following while trying to match with men.
A- My ethnicity is at the bottom of the bottom of choice.
B-If someone is interested, is for my ability to provide. Nobody wanted me at home, but they wanted me to continue what I am doing now. Working outside full-time, taking care of the house-kids-inlaws and my own family. Of course putting my 50% of expenses as well. (In Islam Men should be the provider. Women can chip in if they want, but you can approach marriage only if you can provide for a family.)
C- Those who knew me, considered myself as very chill person. Pay my 50% of the "dates", doesn't ask for something frivolous. Doesn't have big requirements.
I was nearly engaged and the guy on paper was perfect. But of course, a white lady, recently reverted to Islam, joined some courses that he was doing. Boom, I was left for her. He proposed on one knee, got a ring, bought the house that I "found" with him, and they are settling their lives together.
I never expected to live the romantic lives of the few selected women in the world. I was always pretty honest to myself, but for a second I let myself believe in those fairytales. Big error.
So, recently I decided to swap my pictures for something else. A random lady in a blog. White, recently revert, green eyes and very delicate feature (very similar to his future bride)
I joined this very Muslim oriented matchmaking service.
Wow, the amount of good matches is unbelievable high.
People with good jobs, have their own house, had interesting lives, worked abroad and travelled. Are extremely well connected, sometimes handsome as well. In a week, this fictional lady got 55 matches in a week.
As myself, I was lucky with one or two matches a week, mainly people ghosting or clicking by error.
The sad thing is that I made this lady a bit more snobby, high maintenance and such.
This guy who previously talked to my real me, said that he was looking for a humble wife. He has his parents to support, etc. It's a code to say, girl, don't expect lavish gifts or even the bare minimum. I will put food on the table, but don't you dare buying those expensive chocolate. This is from someone that earns the equivalent of 100k in USA, (Software Eng with few years under his belt). The reason, he said, he was scammed by his former fiancee who was a high maintenance lady. At one point, he ghosted me.
Now he reappeared for my fictional character, he promised a holiday in Dubai every year, to renovate the house he already has and let all the furniture choices to this woman. And said that he would like to do some shopping in this exclusive department store before marriage. To treat me "right".
I am hurt. I know that I should not do this. It's barely legal. It's sinful.
But I truly cannot stop. It's fascinating to recognise some of the men I wrote to, some of the profile who ignored me, fighting to get some attention.
And lots of them, are dead serious, which is why it surprised me. They are damn serious, asking to meet relatives, or laying down very precise and quick marriage timeline.
Are Muslim black women just lying to themselves? Because I grew up with the Kumbaya, we are only one big community, nobody is superior, but I have the receipts. White revert, Arabs, South Asians then African. And black women, are at the bottom of all. It's quite scary.
I don't know what to do. I am giving up on marriage, it's a hurtful process as the expectations and the tensions in my house is so high as everyone else is getting married and my parents are pressuring me. Why can't you find someone?? - Well, nobody seems to be interested.
What should I do now? I am quite knew to FDS, still a pick me inside. I feel like I can read and agree to all of it, but not able to even start to apply. I have the sense that I would ended up like a lot of black muslim lady that I see in the masjid, working crazy hours, husband doing the bare minimum, birthing children and breaking their back in the house. Meanwhile, the same men from my community married to "whiteness" are working hard to provide, and their wives are free to rest, to enjoy their money as they like, to pamper themselves.
Sorry, guys. I am maybe oversharing, I feel completely hopeless in this sector. While a read all those great advice, that I try to apply, I got crickets and awful messages of being too ugly to have that. But playing the same game, under the name of another person, I got called lady with boundaries or a queen.
Any advice would be great, especially for the pick me tendency, the brutal the better, I have no self-esteem left, so best to scrap the bottom of the barrel now.
I think one of the hardest truths of FDS that often gets overlooked is that MOST men are LV. There are HVM, but HVM aren’t as abundant as HVW. Many HVW will have to remain single and pursue other avenues to have a happy, fulfilling life. In a world where you have the choice to remain single or to be in an unfulfilling relationship, FDS women will always choose to be single. Better single than suffering. Better single than married to a racist man-child who barely tolerates you. Better single than with a man who isn’t HV. I know it’s hard to cope with male depravity, and racism is it’s own sick bag of trash, but look at the bright side — and there IS a bright side. You can now focus on building yourself and your friendships up with other women here rather than waste time with racist, LV men. You can find like minded individuals. You can travel. You can continue to develop your career. You can flourish into the happy, fulfilled HVW you came here to be. We all have pickme pasts that pushed us into wanting better for ourselves. It might not be much of a consolation, but as a white woman I’ve found that being highly desired by LVM doesn’t mean they treated me in HV ways. LVM will always be LV. Don’t let the reality of men push you away from developing yourself and finding a fulfilling future where you can be happy.
I’m sorry that you are hurting. This is not only unfair, it is unfiltered racism. To answer your question of what you should do - yes it is an honest truth that some women are more desirable than others, whether due to race, class, religion, beauty, personality, education, etc. We can only vet the men who are interested in pursuing us. Yet each person is unique and each potential couple fits together differently. My advice is to never settle. You see how your life could be miserable if you settle for working yourself to the bone for a man who doesn’t appreciate or deserve you. Don’t accept that! It can be truly painful to not meet the expectations and desires of our family, community, and selves. However, the core of FDS is learning to live a happy life alone, until IF a HVM properly pursues, courts, and proves himself. I recommend that you hold your head high, pursue other sources of joy and meaning, and build your own enjoyable life. Strive for what you want without ever expecting a man to help you. Someday a worthy man may see the strength and beauty you have cultivated in yourself, but you do not need him.
Muslim or not you're not the only black woman who has proof of men saying one thing to you and providing the world to their 'preference.' Then once you go outside these men get so upset at you for not choosing black men. So do what you can to build your self-esteem up without a man first. Who are you? What do you like about YOU? Once you have figured that out and follow FDS only then will you be ready to find someone suitable for you. Never, ever give men all of your power.
Hugs! Only trash men exist on OLD anyways. Don't commodify yourself. Your social experiment simply proved that you need to get off OLD, raise your standards higher and vet even harder. You've seen behind the mask, you can't unseen that. But, the truth (no matter how horrible it feels) sets you free. The truth is a solid foundation to build what's next. Now that you know what you're up against, you can outmaneuver it.
Sis, you're centering your happiness around love and marriage. Don't! You can achieve happiness as a solo woman. Then if a HVM crosses your way, he'll notice you for your true self confidence and he'll bring even more value to your life.
I understand you want love. Been there... Trying to wrap my head around what I was doing wrong, what was it about me that made guys only want sex and never love me, etc. My friends told me I didn't need a boyfriend to be happy and I said "ok, but i'd like one regardless. Can't I have that experience?" until one day i realized i might actually never ever find love. It is a real possibility for everyone. What did I do with this realization? I decided to accept it and appreciate other things. The ones I only get to enjoy because i'm single. I've heard many times that the happiest demographic is single middle aged women with no children. That's no coincidence. Even though it sounds terribly lonely (which can be quite terrifying), I've learned appreciate my solo life and still be open to a relationship with a HVM in case he turns up one day. It's been a process. Long and surprisingly less difficult than it sounds.
You sound depressed. Take care of tour mental health. You said in another comment you don't have the energy to study and you've invested resources in your siblings' education out of love for your family. That's beautiful, but what about you? Now that your siblings are doing good, it is more than necesaary that you start taking care od youself. Be to yourself the sister you've been to your siblings. Put yourself first for once.
And stop placing so much value on other people's approval. So what if your community doesn't value women who are over 30? Do they pay your bills? Do they take care of you when you're sick? Why is their opinion so important? Is it a religin thing? Maybe I'm just ignorant about muslim african communities, but I think your faith shouldn't limit your own personal growth and sense of worth.
Anyway, this is my two cents on your situation. I hope sincerely that you feel better soon and learn to see how wonderful you are and how happy you can be regardless of your status in the dating pool. Take care
I am so sorry that you are going through this. It's okay to grieve. Your hurt and sadness are valid. I will say though that male attention and talk in general is cheap. Men can talk out of their asses about the things they will provide to a beautiful woman but often the man most likely to provide those things is the guy who doesn't say anything about it at all... he just provides and lets his actions speak for him. Who knows, if this lady was real the scrotes would probably just lovebomb her and then leave as soon as she gets attached. For them, a pretty woman paying attention to them is a status symbol, they often don't care enough to invest anything meaningful or valuable. I am a conventionally attractive woman, but it doesn't stop me from getting love-bombed, ghosted, and future faked. Unfortunately, we can't control men's scrotey behavior, we can just walk away. If queen Beyonce can get cheated on, then clearly being pretty does not stop a scrote from being a scrote. If those men were worthwhile matches, they would have treated you kindly. They would not have gaslit you even if they didn't have sexual attraction to you. Kindness is the bare minimum. The podcast episode about pretty privilege has some good takes on this situation as well if you would like to delve deeper.
I recommend reading the book entitled "Sis, Don't Settle" by Faith Jenkins, I think it's worth looking. I saw her in an interview in YouTube Channel called Women of Impact in which she shared her struggles and how despite everything she never settle and choose herself and does not let anyone or any man define her happiness. Do not let any men have the power to control your emotions. We look for quality not quantity.
I definitely understand where you’re coming from. There is a definite hierarchy of desirability you experience as a black woman. The sort of men that reject you are the exact type you don’t want. As a muslim woman, your options are more limited because you’re picking from a smaller pond. I’ve noticed a lot of Black or ethnic men are afflicted by self hate, and seek to assuage their inferiority complex by chasing after the white supremacist ideal woman. I must admit, I did get lucky with my beautiful mothers genes, and she bestowed on me her good looks. But I must say I know I would be relegated by many men if they find women with my exact qualifications and beauty in a different skin color. What I have found is that class also plays a significant role, especially with African men. Women that denote the markings of femininity with extensive grooming: make up, scarves (muslim girls) and weaves/ trendy hair for non muslim girls, fashion etc as well as markings of class: a notable name or notable education. Eg ivy league degree or recognizable employer. This is the holy grail—femininity and class status. Actual beauty is less important. Many African men who would prefer to be sole providers will still seek wives within these circles. This impacts the way we participate in beautification and grooming on a macro level. For instance, I’ve noticed the Muslim girlies in the UK are exceptionally gifted at makeup/grooming. The average black british girl Muslim or not would never be caught dead with a hair out of place. For me, I made a conscious effort not to imbibe common beliefs about desirability attributed to black women. For my own self esteem. But like another comment said, you’ve seen behind the curtain. It’s too late now. So the question is, what type of woman do you want to be? If you don’t want the holy trinity of degrees— Dr/Lawyer/Engineer then pursue your career goals to the highest level attainable. That way, you’re able to meet more men on that level, who can honor you the way you deserve. Or failing that, are financially able to provide the life you want for yourself. Prioritize yourself. I get it. Africans are very family oriented but you must prioritize yourself. Not your siblings or parents. In fact, start asking for more support from them. It will compel them to stop seeing you as the first resort for their problems. Let them take you off that pedestal so you can breathe. You may have to work on separating your self worth from their validation in that regard. If you want to soft max your appearance with grooming practices that may help with boosting your confidence as well. Men are vapid creatures, so you may have more luck with in person events. Look up muslim related events in your area, or volunteer opportunities. Men on apps of any kind are really the scum at the bottom of the pond in most instances. So don’t let that get you down. Goodluck❤️❤️
Edit in response to your edit: you said you stated your standards to men, don't. Men are often cruel and emotionally manipulative, the minute you state your standards their reflex is to cut you down to size by telling you you don't deserve to have YOUR own standards, so that you have low self esteem and settle for their paltry offerings. or they use the info provided to lie to you and future fake you.
Just exemplify your standards through your actions. Men understand consequences not words. Block and delete without explanation.
I'm sorry you're so down rn, your self esteem is in the gutter and you're wallowing down there. I think your self esteem is so low that when these guys do meet you, they match your energy and start low balling and piling on you. Your attitude is 80% of how other people perceive you. You are obviously intensely capable and accomplished-even if you didn't get a keyword title from it- ACT LIKE IT. You stepped up for your siblings and provided for them WHERE YOUR PARENTS COULD NOT OR DID NOT. And you did it at a younger age with less experience/resources than your parents had. YOU ARE HELLA ACCOMPLISHED. If a Muslim man can't see it, find another man and get him to convert for you. You bring so much value to your family, any man with eyes can see it, and very few men online want to match that energy. OLD is not a good option even at the best of times. And if the men of your race/religion don't value you, have you considered dating outside your race? If your cultural background doesn't appreciate your qualities, then date outside of it cause you can take Allah with you and he's still gonna love you.
There is a lot to unpack here. First, I want to say how sorry I am for the pain you're going through. I am not African Muslim; I can only imagine the absolute horrors that women go through in such a sexist and traditionalist culture that beats your confidence to nothing all because you are a woman. I am an American woman of latina roots, born into a culture that is also strife with misogyny and hard Christian values. I also went through my own misadventures of racism and colorism, growing up and going to majority white Anglo Saxon schools.
So believe me when I say, I do understand on some level how much your self esteem gets a beating not only because you are a woman, but because you don't have 'white' features to soften such blows. I have very dark hair, dark eyes, and an olive complexion that can tan very well. As a child, other children called me an animal because of my skin tone. They called my wavy-curly hair ugly and an absolute mess, nothing like the angelic straight blonde hair that the blue eyed peers get the enjoy from the other boys in the class. Home life was also not too terribly kind, either, so, I grew up with a major complex regarding my appearance as I grow into adulthood.
Most men who came after me were white. There would be maybe one or two black men in the past who tried something, but most weren't interested, I wasn't light complected enough for them to want to show off and make black women feel like shit. And honestly I'm glad they left me alone, because I would NEVER agree to be their trophy in order to hurt black women's feelings like that. It's so base and disgusting. Asian and Latino men largely ignored me for the same reasons. But for some reason, white men would not leave me alone.
To many women from different races and backgrounds, getting a white man's attention is like a gift from God himself. This is amplified when women come from rough or poor backgrounds or are barred from attaining education higher than middle school, or if they come from incredibly religious backgrounds that give the white man the halo effect, that they push this narrative that if you manage to get a white man's love, he can buy you out of poverty and/or an abusive home life and give you a good life with other white people who can protect you from the harshness of life.
You know what that got me? Multiple assaults from these white men. Deep traumas that gives me severe trust issues that I'm still working out with a counselor right now. A brain so denatured by the PTSD, that many memories of just a few years ago have been effectively wiped out completely. My life never got better when spending time with white men... if anything, it became so much worse each time I let one get close to me.
What I'm trying to say, is that men, no matter if he's white western or an african muslim, are mostly utter trash who add nothing valuable to a woman's life. Most men are LVM. If you read the handbook and spend a bit of time here, you will come to see this as clear as day and once eyes have been open to the truth, you can't close them back shut! You have to essentially deprogram your mind from all this religious and cultural brainwashing that you are nothing without the so called love of a man. It's 2022, and most people agree that a woman is not defined by a man, but by her own talents, intelligence, strength, and capabilities.
I don't know all of your life or what you're going through on the daily, but if you don't mind my asking, is there a way you can add physical and/or mental distance between you and your family? I know it's hard to get away from family when tradition forces you to, believe me I get how hard that is as a latina myself, but I think distance is healthy for your mental health. The way you describe how upset your parents are or how disappointed they are in you at still being single in your 30s is not good for you and you need to get away from that.
I wanna give you a big hug. I honestly don't have much of an insight into the racial issue, but I'll tell you this.
These men are (racist) liars. If you were the "white" version of you, what would be different is that you would be in the position of believing the lies of (racist) liars. This is kind of what happens with women who are more beautiful or younger. Men give them more attention, but it's low value attention. Sometimes it's even straight up manipulation and harassment. So I personally I am not sure that being conventionally attractive is that much of an advantage in finding a good man. It is possibly an advantage in terms of number of interactions you get. But then it makes it more difficult to determine who likes you for YOU. It's an interesting social experiment you got going on, but I think you should stop for your own mental health.
As a pretty white girl I can promise you that they're lying. OLD is hellish for women no matter what you look like. Regular you gets offers of struggle love and your alter ego is getting set up for a pump and dump. Spoiler: they're both shitty options.
I'm guessing that there are significant culture differences that I just don't know about from some of your other comments, but there HAS to be something other than OLD that you can try. Ask for introductions from friends and family, find acceptable places to visit (like classes or art shows), break the rules a little bit. But stop torturing yourself by comparing yourself to other women you've made up in your own head. Honestly dying alone is less painful than being your own personal live-in torturer. One thing men want women to never find out is that no one's opinion of you is more important than your own. You need to do better for you, no one else.
Oh and don't settle for less please, I do understand your desire to want to get married but if there aren't any good men out there, trust me, being alone instead of becoming like the ladies in the mosque is 10000x times better!
I'm so sorry about your experiences. At least now you've seen some masks fall off and know you've been dodging bullets. As others have pointed out, the preference for white women often stems from internalized racism and seeing the white woman as something to give them bro points/enhance their status, which is just another form of dehumanization and objectification. Still, I can understand the desire to be "chosen" and doted on. Just know that the appearance of "doting" will most likely not translate to real, healthy love. The only kind of love we accept per FDS principles. You asked for some tough love, so I'll give you my 2 cnts based on your comments. Here's an idea: choose yourself and dote on yourself! You seem to have extremely low self esteem, and you are treating yourself as someone who does not deserve doting or a good life. You sacrifice for others, and work overtime to offer them a good life, but when others on this forum point to you there are ways you can improve your own life, your first response is to come with excuses (sorry tough love) of why that's hard or not possible. This low self-esteem will leak out of you and people, men, will match your energy. To change this, you need to start looking for ways you can take better care of yourself. Start by looking at (small) actions you can take to invest in yourself and show yourself you are worthy, whether that is grooming, self-help, career advancement or reading up on dating strategies. Even if theoretically all men collectively decide you are not worthy of love, don't add to that by treating yourself similarly. Be the one person who has your back and chooses you.
Second, you have a lot of beliefs and stories that are self-defeating. Yes, racism & genetic looks matter on the dating market. But is it really true that all (elligible) men have collectively decided you are not worthy of love? Can you know with certainty that you will not find love and/or become a mother? That you can't find happiness and fulfillment outside of those things? Or are you playing God by acting as if you know all there is to know now?
I understand this is a very painful place to be. Maybe it's meant to be the rock bottom that will be the turning point, so you can finally start to invest and love on yourself.
P.s. A great resource for black women is chloe_ on youtube. I don't agree with all her points, but she's entertaining, and she'll teach you the basics of acting like the prize.
I am also a Muslim (Arab) and I can relate ! The pressure to settle in the Muslim community is real but please resist !
I don't have specific advice to give you that's different from what has already said but know you're not alone ♥️
Wow, I understand your pain, I'm sorry to hear that it's not going quite as well but don't despair. You see, I am also muslim but white, I come from caucasia and more exactly chechnya, I swear I'm not bragging or anything, I just wanna say that I understand you in a way because when I was wearing the hijab, no men was interested in me, or maybe brown men but this only because I was white and chechen or because I have the papers and they tryna marry for you know what, I felt disgusted by this. I removed the veil and now more men are noticing me, this disgust me even more because the people that once despised me, are now kind of running after me. This turned me off from marriage completely, I don't think I'll ever marry, I do understand that we need to have phisical attractiveness toward someone because it's important. I wanna ask, do you dress nicely, go to the gym and take care of yourself? If you don't you should start doing it, not for a man but for yourself before anyone else, and also to increase your chances of being matched, and hopefully being matched with the one. I hope you'll find a good husband, if you don't, you can hope for God to marry you to a spouse from paradise like me. I'll rather have a man I know is 100% pure and clean.
I'm a Muslim, though not African. May Allah grant you the best man who will love you and will treat you like a queen. Never settle for these dudes that want you to provide. It's your basic Islamic right to be provided for and it's their basic Islamic duty as a husband to fully maintain you. If they make excuses it says a lot about what kind of men and what kind of Muslim they are. If they treat you poorly, but treat a white woman good, it just shows they are not good people to begin with. A good man who is not interested will simply don't match, he will not text you wanting you to lower your standards, because he is not that into you, or demean you. These dudes are LVM and I feel bad for the 'white' reverts who will naively buy into their sweet talk, marry and eventually see what crappy person he is. A lot of it is just sweet talk, they will not be better men just because they are with their fetishized white revert. Unfortunately, I can't advise as where to look for better men, many sisters say they have bad experience on these apps. Some masjids to match making or try to help you if you say you are looking.
There are some amazing comments on here that have answered your question really well already so I'm going to keep this quick. Yes, racism and colourism within dating is a real thing. It's sickening and it's wrong and hurtful but unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it. A lot of men (regardless of their own race) idolise, objectify and worship white women at the expense of women of other races. It's a legitimate problem. However, these men are not worth your time. Yeah, maybe white women have a wider pool of men to choose from because more men are interested in them. But do you really, honestly want these men? I know I don't. I don't want a man who sees me as an object, a trophy or a ticket out of his own self hate. I want a man who sees me as a person, respects me for me and loves everything about me because it's me and not because he has a messed up fetish. I think you need to work on levelling up. Decentre men from your life, try to spend more time on hobbies and outside interests and create some distance from your family/community so you can spend more time getting to know yourself. Stop obsessing about marriage and spend some time off the dating apps. Do things that make you happy. When you can honestly say that you love yourself and you're happy with your life, you're more likely to find men who are actually worth your time.
I'm sorry you're hurting, but what you did was so wrong. You took a woman's picture from her blog and posted it on OLD. Pretty sure that's illegal. Most of those sites claim rights to pics once they're posted on there, so they may now have the right to do whatever they please with her pic. Please seek therapy.
1) You need to build your self-esteem. Self-esteem is built slowly and steadily. I'm no psychologist, but one good way is to set goals in life (goals that don't revolve dating, marriage or men) and achieve them . The harder the goals the better. 2) If you feel that poorly about the body you are in, start improving things that can be improved. Your dressing sense, your fitness levels, grooming etc. I refuse to believe that someone is unattractive simply because they are African Muslim. You know you are kidding yourself. Also, while you are on your journey of self-improvement, also learn to accept yourself. The things you can't change. Or rather, don't want to because why the fuck should anyone apologize for their skin colour and religion. It sucks that men treat pretty women very differently. But what's in your control is your standards and expectations from yourself. It seems like you have never even thought about that. 3)Just because you fear ending up alone is not a reason to lower your standards, or do what you are currently doing. You are only wasting your time. You can build a beautiful and rewarding life as a spinster as well. If you must romanticize anything, romanticize that. Till the time a man doesn't show you he's worth keeping in your life, do your thing. Work on being independent. Work on your goals.