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There is a man who I believe to be HVM. I've known him for 6 years. He has been a friend until recently he expressed interest and set up a date. I know he's been interested for a while but he hasn't made a move until now since I was seeing someone else at the time. Very thoughtful, aware and educated. Takes a personal interest in the struggles women face and has accepted personal loss of relationships because of it. He had 2 male "friends" in particular who he called out for shitty behaviour in the moment against women (in the presence of other people too) and he refuses to associate with them now due to difference in morale.
He is so kind, empathetic and thoughtful. BUT OH MY GOD. He is still a man.
I said yes to the date. The date is tonight.
He recently told me that he gives himself his own haircuts. (After I accepted the invitation.) 😭😭😭 And that the first two weeks after are terrible, but eventually he grows into the cut. 🤦🏽♀️ Sometimes he can "fix" it. His reasoning is that he hates having to try and talk to the barber over the sound of the buzzer in his ear because he can't hear anything they say and it's pointless to try and talk during the service. (My immediate thought is of the 3 hour/$200 hair appointments that I have to attend and make conversation vs the 15-20 mins/$30 it would take for him to maintain his appearance. I digress.) He cut his hair yesterday so it may be shitty for our date. I expressed discontentment over the phone.
He is so far out of the dating scene and has been for about 7 years. In that time he has travelled extensively for work and focused mostly on the progression of his career. He is physically active, takes care of his health, cleans, cooks and prioritizes his dog. He maintains close relationships with people he deems HV. He was very supportive at the beginning of my career and has silently supported me through referrals to my business over the past 2 years we didn't talk. I found out about this from the people who were referred to me. He is introverted and socially awkward.
Help! The pick me in me wants to give him a shot but I am not looking for any fixer uppers. Getting a haircut is bare minimum. Otherwise, his personal hygiene is great. He takes care of himself. My thoughts are the date will determine the future move. We are meeting at a suitable restaurant for a first date that he chose.
I'm hoping you can help me see clearly on this. I have also been single for 4 years and crave the type of intellectual intimacy he provides.
Is this a lost cause? Any advice?
Elle
*** apologies if you were affected by multiple reposts of this... I couldn't figure out how to change the category.
Honestly? I'd pass.
First I think you need to abandon the idea that he is/was your friend. Friends don't have lingering romantic or sexual interest in their friends. Period. He wasn't your friend, he was waiting for his chance. You should also really look inside and try to think about why you never gave him a chance until now despite knowing he is interested. If he is so great, why wasn't he your first choice? Why didn't you leave your partner at the time to be with him? Your gut was telling you something and saying "no". Listen to it and try to figure out what put you off. Whatever it was hasn't changed.
"Socially awkward" (and the way that shows in his "hair cutting" stuff) would also be a firm "no thanks" from me. He is an adult. He's had a long, LONG time to work on his social skills. He didn't. If he wanted to, he would have.
We do not date projects or fixer uppers. If you need to teach a man social skills or how to get a "big boy haircut" he is not HV.
Ever since reading The gift of fear I always listen to the gut. Your intuition gave you the bad feeling from the haircut- and how well can really know a person if you don’t know they cut their own hair after 6 years(side note: reasoning for doing it before the first date? I’m boggled that the mans really said “I want to look busted af on this date I’ve been hustling to get for 6 years” but I guess scrotes do do a good boggle). That weird feeling took you to a place to ask for advice where we won’t cosign your bullshit and will give you the answers you don’t want but need ❤️ plus everything else is 🚩 level suss and grounds for immediate defenestration. So yeah NEXT but try to find out the logic behind a fugly haircut before a first date I’m genuinely mystified lol 😂 good luck lovely human ❤️❤️
Your standards and boundaries are YOURS to enforce. If something doesn’t sit right with you then that’s okay. You don’t need to ask for permission to enforce your own boundaries.
UPDATE: I went on the date last night. It was just OK. The food and wine were great. His haircut was pretty decent for having done it himself, although the sides were unkempt and he had two different length sideburns. He laughed it off with self-deprecating humor at the start of the date. Unfortunately I grew bored quickly with the conversation and ended up eavesdropping on the couple behind us. The woman was not interested and told the dude straight up that they weren't compatible at the table. Lol. Later, our bill came. My date put cash on the table that covered only his portion of the meal. Cue awkward silence between me, him and the waiter, until he clues in and says "Oh, sorry.." then lets the waiter leave to split the bill. The waiter returned for my payment and we had prolonged awkward silence. While walking back to the parking lot I told him I am not interested in him romantically. Main takeaway from this experience: It's fair to expect a certain level of care in your partner's appearance. An investment of time and money into personal services may relate to their self-esteem and values. Maybe a 50-50 haircut makes a 50-50 date. Thank you Queens! 👑 @erythrura @Empress-Intraining @WhySheLychee @creamtart @abby @RecycledPopcorn @Bathsheba @annamalia @NotSalsa @Moussaka @Runner_Woman @swaggypotato25 @thinktwiceorelse @Opossum my possum @arya stark
As a woman, I don't even visit the hairdressers/salon. Even if I was at the point in my career where I had enough disposable income to pay for it, I'd rather spend it on something else. Although I keep my hair long, I do the split-end maintenance trimming myself. So personally I wouldn't see doing your own hair as a LV trait but more of a lifestyle choice thing. Even though mens' haircuts are obviously a lot cheaper, I don't think a guy doing his himself would be a red flag unless he was terrible at it and didn't care how bad it looked. As long as it looks presentable, surely it's fine. That said, if there are any other things you don't like about him/feel off about it's probably a good idea to give this a miss. Just because he might be HV, doesn't mean he's the right HV guy for you. So like the other commenters said, just go with your gut!
If he really cared about the date and knew that his haircut looks bad the first two weeks and then grows in to look amazing he’d have gotten the haircut two weeks before the date to look good for you.
source: my lvx always said his haircuts look bad the first two weeks and grows into looking good so he always made sure to get a haircut two weeks before something important so he looked good.
So the reason why the haircut thing was bothering you was your gut telling you he didn’t value the date with you enough.
"His reasoning is that he hates having to try and talk to the barber over the sound of the buzzer in his ear because he can't hear anything they say and it's pointless to try and talk during the service." Nah. That right there, the lack of advocation for himself, is concerning, esp. more he's socially awkward. What else is he not gonna put up for? And this isn't some injustice or crime, it's a haircut. Dude, you need to communicate to them before they start or find a new place. There's literally a hair place every other block in any big city. "Takes a personal interest in the struggles women face and has accepted personal loss of relationships because of it." Tbh great, but honestly its a bare minimum, like yeah of course be respectful of women. Like, give everyone empathy and respect. So he cares about women's issues but not his own hair? What?
OP I love this question you’re brought to us!! I was in a similar situation (minus that this guy was a friend) so I feel for your situation. This was last summer and prior to FDS, but in my situation, we had our 1st date on Zoom and this was scheduled and planned 2 weeks ahead. We had a call 2 days before where he mentioned how he “cut his own hair and takes 2 weeks to grow in so it won’t look nice on the date”. At the time the comment slightly bugged me but this was my pick me days so I brushed it off and reassured that it probs look fine. I come to the zoom date and his haircut looked FUGLY!! 😂 plus he was dressed so down for the date while I dressed up and my makeup was on point and went to a quiet euro style cafe to have a nice background. I was so mad and embarrassed that this who I was on a date with. He gestured to his head and was like “bad right?”. He ended up ghosting me after this date btw (looking back the biggest blessing in disguise). So what I learned from it was that you never tell someone that you value or see highly your faults AND come to your first meeting not looking you’re best. OP what bugged me about it was that he said that his haircuts looks bad. He’s trying to condition you to expect less from him. If he really valued you like the Queen you are. He would never had mentioned his hair cutting and would make sure his hair is on point. In convo he might briefly or subtly mentions he cuts his hair and YOU would be able to evaluate it at the date and see how good of job he does with it. Personally I think if a man knows how to cut his hair well that’s a great HVM skill. It shows he takes pride in his appearance and a skill that he could pass down to his future sons. But doing AND saying he does a bad job says he wants you to expect less of him. Also I find the social awkward to be a cop. Because they’re never like this with employers or male friends, just “women they find intimidating”. It’s up to you whether you go on the date (though I think that men learn from consequences) but personally I’d ask myself- would he let his future employer know he does bad hair cuts? Would he show up to an interview or an event he cares about looking 1/2 arsed? Why did I not date him all of these years? Good luck out there OP! You’re a Queen and you deserve the best!
Just wanted to say I really like that we can post about guys we're doubting about. It's like a case study, it's good practice haha
Honestly the haircut thing seems like you’re overthinking. Lots of people don’t go to the salon, myself included. Sometimes it is just easier to do it yourself for a plethora of reasons. I don’t think thats necessarily this deep, meaningful red flag. But the fact that this seems to be the biggest red flag you’re bringing up about him so far feels positive because it is a simple fix. You‘ve mentioned his hygiene is good otherwise, and he seems to have other redeeming qualities, while having respected your boundaries throughout all the years you’ve known him. I know all of these are the bare minimum for decent men of course and I am not praising him for any of this, just kind of weighing the good and bad that you have discussed. The truth is that you’ll never really know if he is truly high value or if he could actually be the hvm for you unless you actually go on the date. If it’s a dud, block him and you never have to see him again, one evening wasted, not much of a loss. But if your gut is screaming not to go, then of course put yourself first and trust your gut.
If it's just the haircut thing, I don't see that as a big deal. But then I cut my own hair and can relate to how hard it is to communicate how I want my hair cut to a pro. Usually when I went to a hairdresser, they mess up my hair and it takes more than two weeks for it grow out. Better if I just do it myself.
I don't think expressing interest now necessarily means he was for sure faking the friendship the entire time. Fake friendship is a possibility to be on the lookout for, but with the information we have, it's inconclusive whether that's the case here.
He doesn't sound like a fixer-upper to me.
But the haircut thing is bugging you for a reason. Maybe you don't really like the guy that much. Don't forget you're allowed not to return romantic interest even if he is a great guy. I've turned down guys for no apparent reason that I can put my finger on. Sometimes you're just not feeling it and there's no way to force that.
(Edited because I spelled "inconclusive" wrong and made it "inclusive" oops)
Sounds like social anxiety to me. I'd say no. You can imagine what's ahead of you, that's why you hesitate.
It's easier to overlook the project because his attitude and perspective on women is unique and refreshing. You're right, it deluded me. Thanks for the tough love.
Go on the date and see if he makes you happy. The haircut thing- could be awkwardness/introvertedness. Even I am nervous voicing my concerns to the salon lady, I totally empathize with him. This seems like a small harmless quirk tbvh
You know why not just put him in your scrotation? Keep seeing other guys and only go on dates with him that he initiates and plans if it's fun and benefitting you. Haircuts can make or break men LOL idk I'm petty and wouldn't commit, but I would date for fun if he's good company for a dinner.
I so badly wanna know how the date went😭
update usss😍