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I'm going to preface this by saying I know dating apps can be a blessing and a curse for most of us. For one thing, they have the potential to expose us to HVM. On the other hand, sometimes it feels like we're in a sea of toads. But the apps have taught me one important thing - how men behave when they're interested in pursuing you. First I'm going to go into detail about an experience I had dating a HVM in another state. Later I'll detail how Tinder (of all apps) showed me the basics of what men do when they're interested in you and how it helped me come to the conclusion that my HVM wasn't.
Case in point. I went out on a date last month in Utah with an incredible man. I was on vacation from LA and met him on Hinge one Friday. We had a very easy, light connection straight away, and he ended up asking me to dinner the following night. This guy was so fantastic - he actually made reservations at a beautiful restaurant overlooking a canyon. This dude screamed high quality and I was so excited to meet him. Before my trip I had a feeling I'd probably try to date while I was on vacation, but was so used to being asked to coffee back home that I didn't even bother to pack nice dinner clothes or a pair of high heels. So I spent the majority of the day of my date shopping for a new wardrobe, getting my nails done, etc. So I meet this guy in person, and it was super obvious from the get go that he was a HVM. He was intelligent, stoic, in the military, had plans for the future, owned property. I actually found myself enjoying his company so much that I was bummed when dinner was over. At the end of dinner he politely asked for my number and if I'd like to see him again. I was like YES absolutely. So that night I texted him when I got back to my airbnb (like he asked me to) and he texts me a few more things. One of them being - is there anything you wanted to ask at dinner but didn't? I told him I couldn't think of anything at the moment, but that I was getting ready for bed. I thanked him again for the amazing time, and that was that. On my drive back to LA a few days later I was actually looking forward to hearing from him again. Thinking I'd be more than happy to meet up with him if he's ever in California or if I was ever in Utah. I was even fantasizing about romantic weekend trips and that the Nevada stateline is probably a good half way point for the both of us.
Then a week passes, and I don't hear a peep from him. In the past I would have texted him something to remind him I was still around and was indeed interested.
I start to realize I probably won't hear from him again. I feel content with this realization, knowing full well if I can attract one HVM that I can attract more. I've been working on abundance mindset/law of attraction, and am slowly starting to believe in the sheer multitude of amazing and attractive men around me all of the time.
So one day at work I told my friend about my amazing date in Utah(my friend is a gay man). I wasn’t seeking advice, I was just excited and wanted to share my positive experience with a friend. My friend, after I told him about the last text conversation I had with my date, (the one where he asked me a question and I ended the conversation by going to bed) told me that it's my turn to text him. That the ball is in my court since I ended the conversation.
So I started second guessing myself. Should I text him? Is the ball actually in my court? So I make the mistake of going to another guy at work for advice. He's like yeah, text him. He goes on to tell me that most guys are going to like me taking the initiative because a lot of girls don't. He then starts going on a rant about his dating life, and I’m just kind of left scratching my head.
I walked away from that conversation and like 5 minutes later snapped out of my confusion.
It doesn't matter that I ended the text conversation to go to bed the night of my date - the ball is not in my court.
The ball is never in my court. And going back to my original sentiment - Tinder is what woke me up to this.
Because on Tinder, you can completely ignore a dude, and he will STILL message you. While it can be irritating at times, these men are pursuing you for your attention. LVM or HVM, this is what pursuit looks like at a very basic level.
If a man is into you or wants to get to know you, he’s not going to leave the ball in your court for long. He knows on an instinctual level that there are a multitude of men who are also trying to take that metaphoric ball. When we don't realize this - we begin to feel scarcity and start to believe we're the ones who have to do the pursuing.
When I started thinking about the men on Tinder who bombard me with messages even after I don't respond, a lightbulb came on in my head. My Utah date, while he is an amazing HVM, likely wasn't into me. If he was, he would have texted me at some point within the month since our date. If the dudes I ignore on Tinder can send me message after message without so much as a response from me, then Utah could’ve texted me too. I was definitely bummed but it doesn’t take away from my positive experience and opportunity to grow. I'm super proud of myself that I kept my dignity and self worth by leaning back and not taking on the masculine role of pursuer like I would have in the past.
Anyone have similar stories? Dates with HVM where you had to practice allowing him to pursue you afterwords instead of defaulting to old habits? Tips for staying present with the uncertainty that can sometimes come after a date with a HVM?
He wasn't an HVM sis, he wasn't! An HVM would clearly make it known to you, if the date didn't work out for him. He wouldn't intentionally ghost you or as you say, leave the ball in your court. You can never really know if a man is HVM, just from one basic date. Sure, he may have made reservations, is intelligent, asked for your number, but that isn't enough. A lot of men do that. But what he does afterwards, will tell you everything about him. There's no consistency here. As we say here on FDS, if he wanted to, he would.
I'm really glad you had a fun dating experience sis, but I wouldn't throw the term HVM around so flippantly. That title is earned through consistent high quality human behaviour. One single date and the associated interactions does not maketh the man.
Another word of advice. Don’t ever take dating advice from a gay man. Even if he is your friend, supposedly with your best interests at heart. A gay man can only speak for male experiences of what males expect from males. He will suggest male behaviours of you that simply do not carry over in the context of being a woman.
An empathetic gay man who acknowledges the reality of patriarchy and male privilege, however, will appreciate the unique struggle womanhood presents and will understand that heterosexual courtship is a very different dynamic to his own experiences.
Yeah it took me SO LONG to realize that if he wanted to, he would. In my deepest Pick Me days, I would always be the one to ask guys out, text them or call them first, etc. It only led to me to being rejected, used, and hurt. I would also get deeply hurt when they would ghost me and just…never contact me again. Now I know is to just let men do the chasing, because I deserve nothing but the best! Just think of it this way: if female birds can have male birds trying to be the most attractive, building them nests, and making dances for them, why would we humans expect less than the bare minimum?
Did you not think for one second: He booked a table in this very romantic restaurant by the canyon to get sex from me later? I don’t know, it’s nice and all that he made a booking, but choosing a nice restaurant doesn’t automatically make him a HVM. I also feel after a great date the communication from his side should become more and not less.
I also feel like he is very me, me, me when he asked you afterwards if there were any more questions that you wanted to ask him.
Maybe he was hoping you’d talk or ask about sex related things.
And last, don’t ever chase after men or ask other men for their advice.
I'm here to say that the comments did their justice...but I'm also here to say that if I were you I would dump that gay friend...his unwarranted advice is awful and it gave me the ick. at the least never share with him your dating experiences.. And never ever take advice from men, whether straight or homo.
WE ARE IN A SEA OF TOADS. hahaha. that was funny.
Great story of your HV actions despite receiving poor, self-serving advice from men, and despite romanticizing this man after one good date! You’re absolutely right, if he wanted to he would, and he knows it, so let him text you. It’s all part of pursuing a woman. See if he has the interest, confidence, manners, resources, and ability to plan. You saw he did it well once, so he could have done it again if he wanted to. I particularly love the line, “The ball is never in my court” 🖤 I aim to live by that principle, and I appreciate how well this line captures it. And I think more ladies here can benefit from an abundance mindset with men. There are almost 4 billion men on the planet. If one isn’t interested, don’t try to contort your mind into seeing him as HV and your perfect match! He’s not! Thank you, next. There’s an effectively infinite supply of men in this world and every woman deserves a man who is devoted to her. Best of luck to the next man who is fortunate enough to cross paths with you, LAwoman.
I love this so much! So glad you didn't text him. I had a similar situation with a seemingly HVM, and was super confused when he didn't reach out after a great first date. I let a pick me talk me into contacting him, and ended up in a very annoying 3 month relationship with him, in which he clearly wasn't interested in me, but strung me along through gaslighting and breadcrumbing. If men are interested in us, they will pursue. If we pursue them they'll accept (because it's easy), but they'll lose respect for us.
You did the right thing, Queen!
Keep dating other men. And remember, if he wanted to, he would.
I feel like men want us to show that we are clearly interested and ready to work with him. But they don’t say it! They expect us to know that, and the problem is, many of us don’t. A HVM would most likely tell you directly that he wants you and wants to know if you want him back. A true sign of a HVM is communication and openness. The ball is in your court - he wants to know what you think - but it’s ultimately up to you if you want to return his interests. Think about your distance and how much you two have in common. Good luck sis!