Ah, "trust", such a loaded word. This concept within a relationship is extremely nuanced and what's appropriate is very much case-by-case and couple-by-couple. The phrase "full trust or no trust" is a phrase I just heard used as a dating maxim by a male dating guru (coaching women), someone who, otherwise, makes some very good points, but who is way off target in this matter.
"All or nothing" rarely works in any realm. (e.g .Should you ever lend money? Work with family? Eat gluten? Drink booze?)
Is it ok for your BF/spouse to be friends with an ex?
Well, what does "friends" mean? Peaceful co-parents, or The One That Got Away? What was the breadth of their relationship? Is she still hung up on him? Does she secretly relish the idea of him being hung up on her (whether true or not), regardless of her own interest/attraction? Do they text, talk, meet for coffee, drinks, dinner...? Do they talk about you/her man/their relationship problems? Is she flirtatious? Does she have that annoying pickme energy that is constantly, desperately vying for male attention, whether she's into them or not? You know the type--she just oozes "Giggle, giggle, hair flip, look at me , boys!" like she's training for a PickMe Marathon. She can't even lean forward or back in a non-suggestive way around menz.) Does she simply send a yearly Christmas card/newsletter (addressed to both of you, if you live together/are married!) with a picture of her, her husband and kids in matching reindeer pajamas? Or, does she call him on his birthday to reminisce for an hour? Does she make a sincere effort to befriend you and treat you as a couple rather than holding him apart as a private friendship? And on and on, ad infinitum...
Sure, you can say that it's his responsibility to make clear (to other women) his devotion to you, but, if he maintains contact with a woman who he knows would love it if he were single, that, itself, is lack of devotion. (How is it possible for another woman to respect you and your relationship if she secretly wants your man for herself? I say it's not.)
According to this particular dating coach, your trust should be such that you're not bothered by your man having dinner with an ex, liking sexy pics on social, or--BRACE YOURSELVES, GIRLS--being at a party with TWO of his exes (one of whom he says he was "crazy about"), one of whom was the party host, the other, a guest. Ummmm, NOOOOOOO. (What the hell kind of incestuous friend group does this guy have, anyway?)
If you don't have that kind of "trust", he says, your BF is not the man for you and/or you simply must work on your "trust issues".
Now, I want to allow for the possibility of people out there--perhaps some of you queens among them--who truly have this kind of relationship by choice/are happy with it. But, they are outliers. The VAST majority of people would rather not have lingering exes/former f&ckbuddies, period. We may feel pressured--very--to act cool lest we risk being branded with the Scarlet J, labeled jealous and insecure. Well, you know what? There is valid jealousy and insecurity, and one's loving partner should not incite them. A wise older woman once told me, "Jealousy is not such an awful thing to have as it is to have it provoked."
Of course, there is irrational jelaousy, and no one wants to tolerate that, but I think we can all see the difference between your man saying good morning to a pretty co-worker in passing, and him texting her after work hours or having private lunches with her every day.
(Again, some of you may genuinely be fine with this, but, we must, at least, acknowledge that it is not the norm.)
We all know that when a man is confronted with infidelity, his first line of defense is gaslighting. We women so fear this that we keep quiet when we suspect something is wrong. Trust your intuition, ladies! Pretty much every woman who's caught her man cheating already knew prior to checking his phone. The "snooping" is necessary collection of evidence to counter his gaslighting, without which, he'll simply convince you that you're paranoid. (I highly recommend the podcast, Dating Detectives. Just go listen! Promise.)
As Steve Harvey says, "Cheating trumps snooping." (Isn't it outrageously illogical how a man caught cheating can pull the "trust card" i.e. because you "broke trust" by snooping???)
Of course, we should trust the person we're with. Big fat DUH. But, people tend to throw the word "trust" around like it's a hall pass for whatever they want to do. "If you trust me, I should be able to do X-Y-Z."
A long-ago ex told me he should be able to hang out at another woman's apartment at 3 a.m. because he "wouldn't be doing anything wrong." Hey, Fuckwit! Being at her place at 3 a.m. is wrong--I don't care if you're reading the Bible. He also said dressing up and going to the opera with another woman would be fine, as would meeting one Friday night at a bar. (I don't necessarily think meeting for ONE drink--early evening-- would be wrong, but I'd really rather not worry about all the ways in which this could be a set-up for failure. I mean it's a bar, you know?)
This same scrote went holyf#ckingbatshit when he thought I was meeting a former high school buddy at a diner in broad daylight! (I actually had invited my BF and we had plans to meet my friend together--but he forgot, WTF?) People always say that what they do to you wouldn't bother them...until you actually do it to them.
People say we should simply "trust" someone as if the magic words, "I trust you" are an incantation that protects your relationship and renders people incapable of doing really stupid, dishonest, painful things, even when they are continually setting thelselves up to fall prey to temptation.
What, exactly, are we trusting him to do? Stop being human? Stop being a man? Stop being attracted to and tempted by other women? That's (obviously) impossible. Trust will not make his penis stay limp when he's being flirted with by women in tight skirts, getting drunk with them, or spending time alone with them in their apartment "as friends". Trust will not stop sexual fantasies from entering his head with very little provocation. (We do all know, by now, that it takes basically nothing to arouse a man, yes?) Trust will not stop his mind/heart from getting involved when sharing confidences with another woman or being her shoulder to cry on. (Being there for her when she breaks up with her boyfriend? Are you fucking kidding me??? In fact, there are PUA type scrotes who specifically use this for easy sex because they know she's vulnerable. Guess what? So is your man!) And although the desire to help someone is a good one, it's problematic to repeatedly play the role of Handyman/Furniture Mover/Whatever Manly Task Doer to the rescue because she doesn't have her own man to do it. The Damsel in Distress/White Knight dynamic is one of the most highly seductive. (And, P.S., it's common for women to "thank" the man by cooking dinner for him as an excuse to be alone with him. Women do this shit all the time.)
In short, we cannot "trust" a man into being something other than a man. It is silly and childishly naive (or self-serving?) to think that we can. And, chances are, we don't really believe it. We're just playing Cool Girl, even with ourselves, despite that uneasy feeling in the pit of our stomach.
We can, however, trust him to not set himself up for failure. We can trust him to establish/maintain boundaries. We can trust him to stay out of harm's way. Yes, there will still be times of temptation, and we need a man strong enough to resist and flee. But, that is the opposite of hanging out. You don't hang out with temptation, you avoid it. And when cornered by it, you run. A man with only honest intentions--and with the good sense afforded by maturity--will understand this.
(An alcoholic who is serious about his sobriety will not hang out at the bar, or shop at the liquor store, telling you to just "trust" him not to drink. He guards both his sobriety and your security in him by avoiding such activity altogether.)
To be clear, I don't think every man who insists on playing with fire is looking to get burned (i.e. cheat), but it is definitely self-serving. He gets off on the attention and sense of freedom, and he may not realize how easy it is to fall. Unfortunatley, trust does not render you immune to the frailities common to humans. And, yes, this goes for us women, too. Fortunately, we are generally smarter about such things.
Men are only "friends" with their exes as a p*ssy replacement plan. There is NO other reason. They even leave their children, so please don't fall for their BS lies about how friendly they are. Males are only interested in what women can do for them.
You can't and shouldn't be friends with an ex. Idgaf if children are involved, there is no need to stay friends and spent time together. If you need to discuss something that concerns the children, do it by email or so. Men can't be trusted, ever. All women should do themselves a favor and stay away from men as far as they possibly can. The less men you have in your life, the less stress you'll have.
Also, every men, given the chance (and knowing no one will ever find out) , will cheat.
I agree the word "trust" have been used for men's advantage.
It's not trust issue, it's boundary issue. A woman doesn't have to have insecurities, be jealous or not trust a man to have boundaries about his relationship with other women. More women should adopt "my relationship my rules" attitude and drop guys who don't respect her boundaries.
I see trust like giving a flower water, a bit of water can strengthen but too much and the flower will die, Same with your trust, don't allow yourself to become vulnerable.
Don't trust men too much or fully, give him a bit and see how he treats it, If he wants more then you know he wants to screw you over like the "Let him lead" bullcrap, submission, give up your financial independence to build his career,
Or trust his word that he doens't have aids, Not trusting men fully and follow safety rules is your spiritual prenup, Get his ass tested for aids, registered partnership before you give him the husband treatment.
LAT relationship no matter what he says, don't quit your job, hobbies or anything to build him.
Make it clear that as soon as he becomes disrespectful you will leave.
You can't afford to get abused, screwed over, or left behind when he's done with you.
As someone whose spent hours cruising subreddits like r/relationshipadvice and r/AITA I can't tell you how many times I've seen the same old story play out: Woman's husband has "super close female friend" who can't even be bothered to hide her disdain and jealousy towards her. Husband is constantly coming up with excuses to hang out alone with Pickmeisha bestie. Woman puts up with it and ignores all the red flags going off in her mind because she doesn't want to be seen as a frigid bitch for having boundaries. The next thing she knows, hubby blows off her birthday to spend it with Pickmeisha and/or wants to name their firstborn daughter after her. Or he starts constantly negging her to be more like his bestie.
Seriously ladies, if he has a "close female friend" best believe you better make it crystal clear that you're not ok with them hanging out without you/outside a professional setting if they work together.
Even if hubby and bestie don't end up sleeping together, even if she's also in a relationship, even if she's a straight up lesbian, a lack of boundaries still runs the risk of their friendship devolving into an emotional affair in which he relies on her for all the emotional support and companionship he should be getting from his partner, and begins making you feel like you're in competition with her for his attention.
i take the "full trust or no trust" moto to heart as in i can't fully trust a man, therefore i don't trust men at all and prefer to be single forever. that's how i see it and how i think it should be to most women, if not all. "never stop vetting" is inconceivable to me because that means i'll spend the rest of my partnered life in the anxious state of "is he going to murder me?" constantly. if i need to vet forever, it means i can't fully trust. and if i can't fully trust, then it's a 'no trust' for me.