I am completely DONE with "men are victims of the patriarchy too"

I hear you. I don't want to talk about men's "victimhood" in the patriarchy anymore either. And I'm very glad that my partner never, ever says things like "but men are disadvantaged at X or Y too!!" because after dating a self-proclaimed woke "feminist" who was exactly the kind of gaslighting abusive POS you'd expect someone like that to be, my energy for humoring this idea for even one second is at negative two thousand. Even the unluckiest men still benefit from patriarchy. Even male homeless drug addicts have a better standing than their female counterparts because most women just straight up wouldn't be able to survive on the street. I don't care how harsh that sounds. I don't care about male suicide or murder statistics because that's stuff men are doing to each other because they have COLLECTIVELY decided that those lives are worth the chance of higher status and more wealth for those who benefit from patriarchy. They could just start ending this today but they won't because they're greedy and entitled to the core. In my country regular ass men oppose higher taxes for the richest 1% because they see themselves being part of that 1% one day when they're actually just a year of unemployment away from poverty. The average man is often nothing but a megalomaniac. Obsessed with the idea of power and endless sex to the point they throw all morals aside. How can I feel sorry for that? You made your bed, now lie in it.

I am convinced people only started saying that because they saw that the majority of men did not care that women are being wronged so they had to show them that its negative for them too. We totally accept the fact that so many men primarily think of themselves that I am not surprised this is what it has come to.

One of my favorite examples of how "men are in pain too" is when they say women are allowed to cry and they arent. Lol, surely women are allowed to cry because its seen as a healthy expression of emotion, right? Or maybe its the fact that women are seen as the weakest most pathetic creatures and them crying is not seen as a problem, its just more evidence, apparently. You think little girls dont internalize that? I dont see little boys running around having to prove they arent like other boys so people believe they are an actual person. From day one, its a battle for girls to just be themselves, how in the hell is it in any way similar to mens negative experience with the patriarcy?

Totally infuriating, I agree. It’s painful for me to see how quickly women jump to men’s issues advocacy and ego stroking. Like, why are you not defending women and girls with that same vigor? Why do you feel the need to dismiss women and focus on men instead? And how does centering men’s experience help women? I sometimes raise these questions with them, and point out that automatic prioritization of men is an integral feature of the patriarchy. I’ve had some success in repeating statements like, no, men’s concerns are not more important, no, they don’t have to take center stage in every discussion, and, no, we don’t have to defend their honor, and similar, over long periods of time and multiple conversations. How I see it, they have contracted a pernicious and extremely robust mind virus that needs to be inactivated. Often, people’s immediate responses are totally automatic, triggered by pre-existing mental programs (“defend men and patriarchy!”) and it can take a lot of time and repetition to introduce a gap between hearing and responding as a space for new information and deeper reflection. The programming is very strong, but I don’t think it’s a completely lost cause. It might be with some people though 😀

Yeah, I've never understood this argument. When people make this statement, I just move on.

No use trying to understand foolishness.

What I hate is when there's an online discussion about women's issues, and someone chimes in with "mEn ArE vIcTiMs Of ThE PaTrIaRcHy ToO". That phrase has become like "Not all men" or "All lives matter" in the sense that it's a phrase commonly used to derail the discussion.

For the record, I don't think that men suffer under the patriarchy. If they did, they'd have dismantled the patriarchy long ago. Men gain much more than they lose under the patriarchy.

This is why you should always read your surroundings before saying anything. But personally, I can't ever be done with feminism, if the women before us thought that way we wouldn't have any of the rights we have today.

Men aren't victims of patriarchy because they are the one's who benefited from that the most. In every lifetime it has always been more fortunate to be born a male than a woman. In Iraq, Afghanistan, India, in every developing country it's more convenient to be a male. I know ppl who dress up like men and keep their hair short with a baseball cap when they come home from a night shift to avoid being followed, yet men whine that they are victims too.

Rapists can sue their victims for wanting an abortion so please explain how men are victims from a system men created for men.

Men are humans by default and they are free to be boys will be boys aka no accountability and girls are birds with clipped wings since the day they are born, controlled and molded with fear mongering. Even so called feminists give their sons more rights and privileges because they have a penis.

https://ovarit.com/o/Radfemmery/39479/gender-is-a-prison-but-only-the-wardens-are-recognized-as-being-in-it

Even if (some) men are patriarchy losers, I dont care. Men getting themselves hurt by patriarchy - that's a dude problem. Not my problem. I didnt make that mess, and I'm not gonna clean it up. Could not care less.

I see this from some radical (or radical leaning) feminist women too, depressingly. It feels like the cool new way to be "edgy" in feminism. To reason out how most men dont benefit from patriarchy and make it a big deal. Its like, just shut up. Why are we talking about men's issues. Just stop. I wanna talk about womens issues, and what men need to do to fix this mess THEY got US in.

I guess it's also a desperate attempt to appeal to the humanity in men, the humanity that they've more often than not, lost, long ago. So that if they regain their humanity, they may regain empathy, clarity, sanity, rational capacity, and, see OUR humanity. But it's futile because it just makes the conversation/s it all about them, and weaponsises everyone else's empathy, everyone else who actually does have compassion. It becomes a derail/deflection of the main issues. Sounds like a familiar tactic, much...?

You can't be a victim of something you directly benefit from. If I make a complaint against my male coworker and all my male coworker has to do in a private meeting with my male boss is say "wimmen, ammiright? lulz" and the boss agrees with him and laughs and disregards my complaint. Boss pats me on the head and tells me he told my coworker to not do that anymore while winking to the male coworker. This is all figurative, of course, but it illustrates the systems in place that benefit men. Women have had to deal with a society primarily run by men for men where misogyny, now carefully hidden behind closed doors, still runs rampant.

No man is a victim of this system he directly benefits from.

P.S. In an open interview for an IT position I was well qualified for, the two male interviewers started to talk over me to each other and they repeated what I said in a high-pitched voice mocking me in that moment in front of me. I was discussing my certifications. I immediately just shut down and stopped talking. I knew I wasn't getting the job now. Don't tell me than men are victims of this system.

Your observation that people never turn race or class around in the same way - based. Its always feminism that has to be iNcLuSiVe. Women are never allowed to put ourselves first, or have anything to ourselves

On an intellectual level I sometimes fall prey to the logic of: 'they are'. But honestly, this post is so cathartic to read! I actually think that for any woman who enables the 'men are victims of patriarchy' rhetoric, what that really is for her, is a fawn response. Because they (ie men) still, at this point, have the balance of power. If they are victims of the patriarchy, they are victims of themselves, and each other, and their forefathers. So guess who can stop the victimisation? Who? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? What a conundrum...

I know the answer to your question actually. How are males victims of patriarchy? The male was over bred by the elites. The people at the top intentionally bred the male. They used women to over breed males, to use them as slaves (for their muscles and strength) to fight in their wars to be able to conquer other countries, . They were able to over breed males by enslaving women by taking away the females resources, which cuts off her ability to take care of herself, which then forced the female to attach themselves to a male in order to survive via marriage, which then forced females into baby making machines to produce slaves for the elite to use. This is the aritifcial matrix called Patriarchy, this is anti-nature.

Patriarchy promised a female to every male, it promised every male a job and a family that they would not other wise have had if we were to abide by nature's laws. In nature, the female would reject the majority of males. But patriarchy took away the females resources in order for her to not be able to reject males. It is unnatural for women to be popping out 4,5, 10 kids back to back to back. So now we have ALL these males, over bred, over running the planet, not understanding why they were put here, and they are angry (which caused the birth of the incels movement) because patriarchy promised them a job, a woman, and a family but they are slowly waking up to the fact that every male doesn't get a woman, and they've got all this testosterone running through their veins that wants them to fuck and spread their seed. The males brain operates in scarcity and testosterone is telling him to make as many copies of himself as he can. So now we have a whole lot of males that would not be here, if it wasn't for patriarchy intentionally over breeding them. And they got nothing to do.

As females are getting our rights back, and we are getting our resources back to take care of ourselves, we need men less and less. And these over bred males are starting to see how they aren't needed. Women aren't forced to attach themselves to a male (via marriage) for survival anymore. Now these males are lost, confused but still feel entitled to what the patriarchy told them was there's. A woman, a job and a family. And when they can't get those things, they kill themselves or kill other people in mass shootings..

It is ALL interconnected. Patriarchy absolutely effects the male. It's just in a different way that it effects the female. What we are experiencing are symptoms of over population. China has 70 million more males than females because of they one child policy,which caused millions of female babies to be murdered because of the false belief that males hold more value. When the truth is that it is the female who holds the value. Women are born with value. Males have to develop value, and a lot don't . These males are not able to live in a survival of the fittest environment, be issue they were given everything easily by patriarchy. Now they are having to fight to get their needs met, when they never had to before. Patriarchy have them everything with zero effort. Now that women are getting their rights back, males are seeing how fucked over by patriarchy they are too. Males were brought to this planet against their will, and now we see how detrimental this decision has become.

based.

No offense, but straight women who want to fuck men cannot lead feminism. Like at all, that's how this bullshit started. Not saying women who are bi or lesbian are better, but because they can just date women they're less likely to care about men.

Straight women who either have standards or are celibate can only be leaders. This is why when ever there is an an oppressed class, like blacks, they cannot have self hating or class betraying blacks at the forefront, people who say "I've never experienced that" cannot lead.

Women who love to be losers and women who hate themselves can't lead feminsim. Look at how feminism started! Those women were strong and knew exactly what to do, we have to honor them by fighting just like they did!

I’m sorry but what? White people can’t experience racism? You’re clearly set in your opinion and I’m not here to argue with you but what a ridiculous statement.