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My date is still talking to his ex and living with his ex, so I told him I only date people who has a clean break from their ex. This is his response:
" You have given me a relationship ultimatum: If you don’t do this thing, then we don’t have a relationship. And it’s based on your values and not mine. I don’t know what specifically you fear about me talking to an ex. It feels like maybe you don’t trust me to be emotionally faithful. Or that you don’t fully possess me. Or I don’t even understand what or why. It’s not even that it’s the most important thing in the world to me. I just feel very controlled on that topic. And your only reason that you’re not okay with it is “(my name) doesn’t have a reason to talk to an ex” “ (my name) wouldn’t talk to an ex” And I’m not (my name) . And I shouldn’t ever be expected to think, act, and do the same way (my name) does. But this is your current standard for me to live up to. I haven’t been given a good reason for this. It feels controlling and unfair. What are you trying to control with this dealbreaker?"
My question is: It's apparent that he's a manipulative person. Do you think he's treated all of his ex-partners the same way, or is he treating me this way because he's still in love with his ex and wants to remain in contact with her?"
Update: He said his ex never gets jealous and she's polyamorous.
Thank you so much for your comments. I'm learning a lot from you (DARVO, triangulation, word salad, "Why does he do that"), and I'm extremely grateful that a forum like this exists.
This guy is normal, generous, giving, likable, charming, 'kind,' and helpful in real life. I didn't see any signs of narcissism or red flags during the first few months of knowing him as acquaintances. People like him. His generosity, genuine smiles, and actions felt very authentic. I'm still in shock. I will not engage with him any further.
"You misunderstood me. It wasn't an ultimatum. It was a goodbye."
Why does it matter? The outcome is the same. This isn't about the ex, this is typical male "sob you have boundaries, it means you hate me and you're against me, that is so unfair". This is how he will approach any other boundary you set. Nah.
Ultimatums are taboo, and we're made to believe that only evil villainous bitches in movies would ever stoop so low as to present a man with an ultimatum. They want us to think that presenting an ultimatum is always completely unacceptable. Because ultimatums can benefit women; we use ultimatums to enforce boundaries that keep ourselves safe and secure, and we do this without regard for hurt male feelings.
The ironic thing is this: he says you're controlling him with your ultimatum, but he's actually trying to control you. *You* are giving him an option to decide his own fate. He, on the other hand, is trying to guilt and manipulate you into staying in a relationship where your boundaries aren't being respected.
Use ultimatums to eliminate scrotes with pride
I've known (platonically) guys like this for years and they tend to triangulate this way with all their partners.
With that amount of word salad? Who cares the 'why'? Honestly, it's probably BOTH. Get out while you can.
does. not. matter.
his response did not include the words:
'it sounds like my current behavior is really causing you stress. i love you and want more than anything to make life easier on you...things are difficult enough. let me figure out a different living situation. thank you for being patient with me."
How we know it’s bullshit is if the roles were reversed he would TOTALLY have flipped out on you. Like dude come on.
Even if the breakup was good, it can go real toxic real fast living with an ex, especially once they begin dating new people. There’s also a high chance he is straight up lying and it’s not his ex and they’re still together, or he is making their relationship and/or breakup out to be waaaay different than what may have actually happened (the breakup was more recent than he claims, they were far more serious than he claims, he is monkeybranching/setting up new supply because he is a coward, etc.). We don’t need an excuse at all, but there are tons of reasons why not wanting to be in a relationship with someone so clearly not even finished with their past one is a good idea. It’s not over until one of them moves out and completely untangle from one another.
Word salad DARVO. Block and delete immediately, he is very bad news.
His explaination screams immature. Wants to have his cake and eat it too. Don't even bother to reply. Just block.
Is he dumb? Everybody is allowed to set the standard they want, in this case you even fulfill it yourself. Why is he acting like you are cutting off his oxygyn supply? This is a totally reasonable standard to have.
What did you respond?
Why bother reading whiny scrote essays, when you can just: 1. Block 2. Delete
Also I'm not even an english native, but the way he writes makes me rage. How do some people fail to learn how to use their own language? Bye, Felicia!
Woman: *states a very common, reasonable, universal standard.*
Scrote: you are against me by expecting me to have basic decency and morals, and that's just asking too much. Woe is me. You're so controlling. Heres 12 paragraphs about how not giving me sex makes you a bad person.
I pity the "ex."
Men who use word salad and psycho babble are woman beaters, period. Its one of the glaring red flags of a covert narc abuser.
Once you see psycho babble for what it is, a spoiled child grasping at straws, its kind of comical. Block him and let him flounder about what a victim he is into the void.
Yes, he absolutely treats all women this way. Guilting has clearly worked out for him. Don't be a chump lady. Having similar values/morals is THE foundation for all romantic relationships. Its the bare minimum requirement. He knows this, and instead of growing a spine and being a man, he decides to become a medieval philosopher. He is being combative towards very, very basic standards. He's an abuser of the edgelord variety.
nice guys show their true colors when it comes to dating a woman with standards. they ALWAYS say we are CoNtRoLLinG when we set boundries. it's so common it's boring.
Me to this dude:
Get rekt asshole. Boo hoo I don't like you being in contact with your ex. You can't even mentally handle that I've physically seen other men with my eyes. As another commenter rightly pointed out, attempts to get you to stay in the relationship while demanding you walk back the boundary you just expressed are DISRESPECT and should be treated as such!
Acceptable responses include:
Apology and behaviour change
Collaborative compromise in an attempt to reach a mutually satisfactory conclusion
Admitting you aren't planning to break contact with your ex and this relationship is no longer compatible.
He's straight up trying to have his cake and eat it too by trying to triangulate both women to secure the best situation for himself. Don't participate in this fucking circus, queen.
Think about what your values and boundaries are . If that boundary is crosses you tell them once . If they in turn blame you for having standards and gaslighting you you as a woman have no obligation to entertain and explain him why it bothers you he is still in contact with his ex . You just WALK AWAY
I bet he’s still dating and fucking his ex, and she doesn’t even know they’re broken up 😂
RUN AWAY. FAST.
He's trying to see how much of a fool you are. He has no respect for women. Look at what he's doing with his ex...still stringing her along, and clearly she has unhealthy boundaries. You will both need therapy soon if you continue to deal with him.
You just answered your own question. Of course he treats all women this way... because he's a manipulative person!
You've overthinking this. Just block and delete him.
Also, this is why I never reveal my standards to men. It just shows a man how to manipulate you OR you get an argument like this.
If I found out a date was still living with his ex (are they even broken up????), I wouldn't have said anything, just finished my meal and blocked him on my way to my car.
LVM always say that you're controlling when you demonstrate a backbone. Maybe they even believe it. I love the fact this guy is living with his ex and still tries to gaslight you that you should trust him. Are you sure she is even his ex?
Why does it matter? Focusing on his reasoning for what he does will only take time away from your life. Read "Why Does He Do That." I hope you block and delete and find someone who is actually available and worthy of your time!