Why do so many men happily bullshit during relationship arguments/discussions?

I feel like their tendency to try to solve emotional problems with "male logic" is just another symptom of most men being emotionally crippled. You can't "logic" your way out of a relationship problem and that's obvious to anyone with basic empathy.

If your wife says "This thing you are doing hurts my feelings" answering "Here are 10 reasons why it shouldn't hurt your feelings. You are acting illogically, now admit that you are wrong, apologize to me, stop being upset and bow to my genius argument!" will not solve the problem. Ever.

Lol! The last guy I had a situationship with tried the debate tactic on me. I simply got up and drove home. This was after I'd found FDS and was still practicing vetting. It felt like the final straw. Blocked and deleted the scrote.

This is called negging and backfooting. They attempt to refocus the problem on you. Anything small from the present or past to derail you from your point so you get so flustered that you forget your point and therefore they escape accountability. My ex did this to me constantly. I couldn't bring up any concern without him twisting, changing, deflecting, doing the most extreme mental gymnastics to make ME the instigator and he the victim. It's a level of gaslighting that makes you feel crazy, but also on the defensive, so you start having to defend yourself against their allegations instead of focusing on your concern about his behavior. This shit gave me such bad ptsd that even remembering how my ex would do this to me is making me shake.

It's their fragile men ego. They don't like being questioned and challenged by a woman. They take it personally. Their little peepee shrinks once you win an argument. They feel emasculated. They are pathetic as most men are in general.

I am taking a communications class right now and the book talks about the differences between men and women when they communicate. When women communicate, it’s to express their thoughts and feelings. When men communicate, it’s to dominate the conversation. Of course, this is a generalization between the two genders. They also mentioned how women are better listeners than men because men view listening as a submissive act — that’s why they don’t listen. Ladies, this was all spoken of in an educational communications textbook.. the fact that this sort of information is presented in the book is really intriguing. It just tells me that men really are how they are because of what they are 💀

I’ve learned that most men—most people—have a really hard time accepting responsibility. I read a study that men especially have a hard time with this and saying sorry bc they see admission of wrongdoing as an indictment of themselves. So to even apologize means, in their mind, that they’re bad people or less than. This is why most people pass the buck, make excuses, and lie. All to avoid feeling bad about themselves.

I had one whose tactic was a little different. He would say "I'm not winning this one" and try to change the subject. Like... what? Can you win or lose a conversation on improving how you relate to one another? Is a relationship a competition!?

Because they're demented and lavish in the misery of other people with this emotionally abusive tactic.

“I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.”

God this was my ex for sure 🙃 his favorite line was "Why are you bringing this up now?" (Because the better time for him would be never) but he would also, every time, do that thing where he focused on some trivial, irrelevant part of the conversation until he'd successfully sidetracked his way out of it completely. Didn't really think about it until just now but it got to the point where I was using my notes app DURING our conversations because they made me feel so crazy. Yeah, I'm embarrassed by how long I stayed with that asshole.

It's a control tactic. Healthy men are secure and know how to have emotionally intelligent partnerships with women. Abusive men only relate to women through control and domination.

I wasted a lot of time in my teens and twenties defending myself from verbal attacks from men until I realized they weren't curious, they didn't need to be educated, they didn't "misunderstand." These guys just hated women. It was 100% emotional abuse. You will never win an argument with a misogynistic man, because you lost the argument before it even began. His very attempt at arguing with you is coming from a disingenuous place. Reject that.

This is why today, I never argue with or debate men, ever. I just disappear.

These guys LOVE debates. They always need to feel right and smart. Their egos get off on it. If they can't strongman you into things physically, they try to outwit you. It's exhausting and a waste of time.

I have sons and have noticed it’s inherent in them to be competitive in all things and with all people. Every goddamn thing is a competition (whether it is or not). Especially children, teens, and LVM. It’s VERY HARD to teach boys out of it and replace it with sharing, turn taking, listening, teamwork, and good sportsmanship. They simply don’t want to. They get off on competition—it gives them adrenaline or seratonin or something.

They’ll be competitive with their significant others, their siblings, their friends, and grown men will even be competitive with their own children —even babies! It’s a huge red flag.

Competitiveness is different from just being a nonstop argumentative narcissistic asshat, however. Those jerks do it for pure pleasure of confusing you and causing you pain. Sadists.

I don’t think I’ve met a man who isn’t like this. This is one reason I stopped having relationships.

Ah, the debating syndrome.. Where Deflecting meets Mainsplaining, with a handful of Gaslighting and a hint of Dunning Kruger.

Read this in your "fake movie trailer voice" please.

Lol when you ask him a direct question and he changes the topic and quickly babbles about something else

My ex was exactly like this. A simple request, “Honey, could we eat the dinner I made for you upstairs at the kitchen table instead of downstairs by the TV? I’d like to see and talk to you sometimes, since you’re gone from 0500 to 1800 hours everyday. I miss talking to you.“ This would be met by, “F*ck you, L! I’m not going to do what you want just because you say you want it. It must be so hard to be you! You have it SO bad. And don’t you start crying so that you can win the argument!” This was how he responded to every small request I had to make the relationship better. He always won every argument. He even won himself a divorce bought and paid for by me, because I’d rather die alone in a room with 50 cats that I’m allergic to than to spend one more minute as his wife.

Men of colour are just as bad. My ex ghosted me for two days and then was absolutely shocked to find out I had blocked him when he tried to call me 48 hours later. Somehow, I ended up being at fault for having no empathy and not understanding why he went AWOL for 48 hours. He called me from a VoIP number and I answered as I was in the process of applying for new jobs (otherwise I don't answer unknown numbers). He proceeded to berate me for not having empathy and labeled himself a victim who couldn't pay off his $7000/ month mortgage on a new house that I told him not to buy on a whim. I was still learning to deprogram my Pickme behaviour at the time. I should have cut the call but I was young and more easily manipulated and guilt tripped at the time. Of course my pain of being ghosted by someone I was dating for two years didn't matter. The anxiety and pain I felt didn't matter, when I desperately called him 6-7 times and left three messages the first 24 hours. He even managed to make me feel bad for responding appropriately to his ghosting. Men are manipulators without empathy. When women talk about the abuse they endure they hijack the conversation and say 'but also men experience this, things are also harder for men." When men talk about the fact that suicide is higher amongst men, (they don't seem to understand that this is their own doing through subscribing to patriarchy). women listen with empathy. We don't make it about us. It's all boils down to men having no empathy for women and just seeing us as disposable tools/ objects without humanity or feelings to bear their offspring and make their lives easier. They feel entitled to it.

Lundy Bancroft in "Why does he do that?" talks a lot about this in his book. It is essentially due to the need for control, power and due to their feeling of entitlement.

You write "clearly in the long-term this behaviour is going to cost these men their relationship, unless they can go all out abusive and stop the woman from leaving". Make no mistake, acting like that towards a partner IS abusive. Its really harmful for women to be with that kind of a man, he is just as abusive as a man who uses violence to control.

As women, it is VITAL to educate yourself on these tactics, to avoid being abused, and being trapped in that kind of relationship.

It is not just bullshit, its gaslighting, manipulation, and as I said - it is abuse. There is no excuse for it.

The Daily Mail wrote an article about it:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11592331/The-real-reason-boyfriend-keeps-starting-fights-

It's interesting that you noted that it's a white male thing. You might be on to something there. Men in general have a lot of power in almost every culture (patriarchy) and their entitled thinking and behavior is bolstered by everyone and everything around them. Now imagine someone that is both white and a male. He has zero skin in the game when it comes to oppression, or considering the thoughts/feelings of the othered. A white man could go to any country on earth and still be considered as the norm or on top. The only people who can hurt him are exactly like him; he's only got those males he's competing with, and everyone else is irrelevant to him. He doesn't have to take anyone else seriously.