What to do about “pre-enlightened” friends?

I find that categorizing friends using shared interests and having strong boundaries helps if you really don't want to let go of that friendship. The friend you mention may be the one you can talk about a shared hobby with or you can do certain things with but other topics or activities just don't work for you two and you can enjoy them with a different friend.

I'm not saying that you should never mention your principles or completely avoid talking about that part of your life but maybe it won't work as the main conversation topic with that person, just as something you sprinkle in every now and then.

That being said, if a friend is intentionally offensive or disrespectful or puts you in harm's way by choosing a man's feelings over your safety or comfort, you really, really need to dump them to protect yourself.

One thing I will add (as I agree with the other comments here) is that letting go of pre-enlightened friends can make room for new ones who ARE enlightened. Once I ditched the “toxic” friends (they weren’t fully fds-aligned but they were also soooo draining and one-sided), set boundaries and categorised the non-draining ones accordingly (gym buddy, drinking friend, etc), then I had so much time to invest and connect with high value friends that actually matched my values. Those ones became my closer friends and the ones I now spend the most time, money, effort on.

I agree with erythrura. As long as there's mutual respect, the friendship could stay strong. I have no irl friends that share my "hatred(?)" toward males, too. Apparently I'm an extrimist for seeing reality lol.

At this point, I'd just laugh remarks like that off. Ignorance is bliss. It's hard to believe how depraved males are, for many women it's way easier to deny and 🙊🙈🙉 about it.

I feel like if you have short hair, don't have kids, aren't married, are single, are LGBTQ+, nobody will respect your opinions or thoughts if they are even slightly a little bit "man-hating". It's like you have to fit yourself into this box of motherhood and wifliness if you want any iota of respect in society. Otherwise you're just a man-hater and crazy. It sucks.

I recently had to leave a close friendship (and entire friend group) when the Queen Bee threw me under the bus after I expressed discomfort with the actions of a male friend of hers. It sucks because she had more social capital than me and therefore everybody listened to her. Because it was more advantageous to keep her as a friend. I was new to the group and therefore my claims were dubious.

If people think you're the type of man-hating woman to "cry rape" and "complain about harassment" then they will discard every single thing you say, or blame you for it. Not always but just, nobody gives a shit and it's so patantly offensive.

Thank you for the feedback!

Haha - that's exactly how I feel. As if I'm extremist? But it's seriously just reality. And they refuse to see it.

I wish I had a good comeback for "You Just Hate Men." Something like, "Why shouldn't I?" But that's not very snappy. I detest the accusation, as if it's bad to distrust men - when it's the most BASIC common sense thing to do. Ugh.

Thanks again for helping me feel sane.

Most women I know are "pre-enlightened". I can't change their minds, but I make my "enlightened" opinions clear if/when the subjects of dating and marriage come up in conversation. I never hide my opinions among friends, but I never try to convert anyone.

If your friend is being disrespectful to you, then let her go. If you don't think she meant any disrespect by what she said, then continue being friends with her.

I will say that most women, even "pre-enlightened" ones, can agree with at least some FDS principles. Most men probably cannot—which is why we're not friends with men anyway.

I totally understand dear and it's because pickmeism is a form of programming assigned since childhood and she is trying to protect the perceived status quo that centers stuff like the "male loneliness epidemic" 🥺😆

Remember she probably feels sorry for guys too and they end up like thinking lv guys are the business it's very painful. They become bitter or start seeing the light at some point tho

I mean, YOU don't have to take it up the ass just so he won't make you only see your kids half the time.

YOU don't have to deal with mantrums.

YOU aren't dealing with yelling or domestic violence.

You get to choose where your money goes, and what you'll do with the rest of your life.

Sounds like you just gotta keep on winning.

The same chick I love who smiles smugly when people mention she's engaged (after years of begging) doesn't have a car because she pays for her fiance's, who flirts with all the women at work).

You can't talk sense into everyone.

I can't really advice you on how to find friends who are radfem, because I am terrible at finding like-minded friends lol. However, I totally understand how uncomfortable it feels to have someone pity you for being cynical about men based on what happens around the world. It's not only condescending and misdirected, it is also disingenuous as hell. Is this friend careless about her own safety if she's walking home alone at night? Does she doze off in an uber in the night if she's alone?Doesn't she take all the safety precautions that women are expected to take if they are going out clubbing, dating, working, grocery shopping, existing? When she takes those precaution, doesn't that mean that she has implicitly assumed all men are potentially dangerous as well? If she pities you, she should pity herself too. Next time, smile politely and tell her, "I feel sorry that you are in denial about what our own sex goes through". It's a good reminder that your hatred isn't stemming from simply the personal. Your disdain is political, not pitiable.

There is already great advice here, to which I probably can't add much. But I will say something rather depressing, and that is: keep your expectations of friendships low. Most women will throw other women under the bus for men at the drop of a hat. I can't count the number of times my heart has been broken by women who I thought I could trust because they chose to prioritise their relationship with a scrote over their relationship with me. I have been bullied by women out of social groups because of their allegiance to men. The disappointments from women are endless and now I keep my guard up and don't expect much from women friends or acquaintances - even the single ones who claim to dislike men will fawn over a man once he appears.

I was at dinner the other night and the waiter was an arsehole and so I spoke brusquely to him. My (female) friend said, 'wow, I want to be like you! Respect! Good on you, that was really great'. But whenever the waiter appeared she made sure she was as friendly as possible with a huge smile and encouraging words, almost as though to placate him after his dressing down from me. This didn't effect me at all of course, but my point is that the desire to please men and to choose them over women is hardwired into women and most women will remain 'unenlightened' their whole sorry lives.

oh sis... i wish i had encouraging words for you. but i don't. i'm sorry. i feel almost the same way, except i no longer have the patience to deal with pickmes - or pre-enlightened women.

i recently had another bad experience with one who says she's a feminist, over 40 years old, but still prioritizes men. i travlled a long, long distance to visit her and we went to a party together because she insisted. she left me completely alone in the street (the party was outside, kinda like a concert), in a city i was visiting for the first time, where there was a bunch of drunk people, i had no cell phone (because we thought we might be mugged) and for what? to be with a stranger because she was horny. while she was busy being a pickme, nothing bad happened to me - thankfully. but i was scared.

so, another ex-friend to add to the long list.

i think you're better off friendless than with pickmes. "oh but she has so much potential" - well, it's your time and energy, so you do you. but if you want my advice, stay away from pickmes. i was left alone in a situation that could potentially be dangerous because my """friend""" who is suuuuch a feminist was too busy with a drunk dude to keep me company (she was not drunk, btw). and i travelled a long distance to be with her. NEVER AGAIN!

another advice: don't project. you are an elightened woman and you project your elightenment onto other women. if she's young and naive, ok. but if she's over 30 and is experienced, it is mandatory she learns from her mistakes. if she can't learn from them, she'll just keep repeating them and she'll drag you with her.

This idea of enlightenment vs otherwise comes off as culty.