What are your thoughts on men not having much of a career established by 30+?

A man dropping out or failing post secondary schooling are big red flags to me. I find this type and the type who bounce from job to job tend to overlap. Their life and work philosophy always seems to be “do as little as humanly possible”. The guys who were happy with barely passing grades in high school. Wastes of space. The worst of this type are hippies. Avoid any man who identifies as a hippie.

Alternately, I’ve met men in their 30s with masters and phds who haven’t achieved anything other than a decade of schooling and an absence of social skills. Man children with degrees. They can get high paying jobs but have trouble keeping them and make terrible boyfriends and much, much worse husbands and parents. Absolutely useless in the real world for anything outside their area of expertise.

I don’t care how a man is ambitious and hardworking, but he needs to be. He can run his own business, be a realtor, be a tradesman… as long as he is consistently successful and driven. That’s sexy to me. One of the most successful men I dated ran a commercial blinds company. Another a commercial carpet cleaning business. Not so sexy sounding, but their success at their businesses and intelligence were.

It's a massive red flag for ME because I've actively delayed certain things in my life to prioritize my education and career, and if a man can't do the same -it means we are working towards different life goals and using different methods to achieve them. It means we aren't compatible.

I wish more high achieving women would look at it like this instead of trying to Barb the Builder a man up- when that man through his choices has shown he doesn't value or want the same things as her. I know it's hard, especially if the man is good natured, but all men are sweet in the beginning- and it doesn't mean he's compatible with you.

I weep for my friends who are pursuing their Master's and dating men their age who are "thinking" of going back for an associates... These men don't really care- if they wanted an associates degree they'd be in school by now. Why as a high achieving woman are you going for a listless man who has no follow through on his dreams?

A man not having a career by 30 means they don't have a plan for the future. How will they have money for a wedding? How will they have money for kids? How will they have transportation? What kind of home is he going to live in? Is he just being supported by his family and friends forever? What kind of stability does he give?

The number one cause of divorce is money. You can't live in a fantasy land where you survive on love and you don't need money. There's a reason why the term Golddigger came into being. To shame women for thinking about a man having money. So that men who have nothing to their name can still attain a wife and babytrap her so that she has less resources to leave him.

i try not to judge too much because i'm in my thirties and used to be a loser up until last year even though i tried really hard and had some privileges. we live in an era of poor mental health for pretty much everyone and that is veeery detrimental career wise. i struggled with depression for years while trying to become a scientist, which means i was constantly broke. i'm ok now because i completely changed direction professionaly, but it was really tough. i lost precious time persuing that silly dream.

that being sad, though, i think men have more privileges, more opportunities and more support in general (maybe with the exception of men of color), they have it easier. so they should be able to have a somwhat good career by 30. they don't get pregnant, they aren't limited by gender violence, they aren't as judged as women. they usually become losers because of porn and games addiction (playing games isn't inherently bad, but it can be addictive), which can lead to depression. They also lack financial responsability, which contributes to poverty (although not being the sole reason behind it), which is also quite depressing.

we go through worse and more of us make it out alive. we're stronger.

It's really important when talking about this to not compare men and women. Women will respond to their situation, their partner, and their family's needs to make their future. Look around you and you'll see it in your personal experience. But the data also backs this - Community colleges are filled with moms and older women expanding their careers for their kids and themselves. Gates foundation and similar organizations all recommend, for the biggest community impact, to invest in women's education and ventures as they use that opportunity to reinvest in their families and communities whereas men buy things for themselves.

This is all to say that it is critical to judge men where they are at and never for potential. If he is not building for a future now, he will not later and he most certainly will not do it for you or your kids. He will do it when he wants to. *You cannot make a man do something he does not want to do.*

Failure to launch. It's rather hard to set up a career after you're 30 if you didn't put in the work in your twenties. What excuse do men have? They have none of the struggles women do and they're literally hardwired to bring home the bacon. What use is a man that doesn't have a good career? That's literally the one thing most of them bring to the table and they're not even good at that? Boy bye.

Shit happens and the world's more unstable than ever these days, but honestly, I wouldn't waste my energy unpacking the reasons behind why a man isn't where he should be. It's a waste of time. All I need to know is we're not compatible.

In general though, men have so many advantages and entitlements that it's easier for me to assume a guy who doesn't have a plan by 30 has been fucking around.

I'm closer to 40 now. In my 20s, I was dealing with trauma, poverty, and abuse (most of it caused by men). I had undiagnosed PTSD and was waiting tables to survive.

If I can pull myself together, rebuild from a hole in the ground, and now have a thriving corporate career DESPITE men trying to stop me every step of the way...

(Including male coworkers sexually harassing me and trying to sabotage me, and me having to fight for every raise and promotion that was handed to male coworkers who slacked on the job) ...

... then what the fuck is men's excuse?

What qualifies as a "good career" these days? I feel this has gotten murkier for millennials and younger. I've known quite a few people who took into their late 20s to start having some sort of idea what their career path is going to look like. I struggle with that myself. I don't consider me or those other people LV because of that. The requirement is that they keep trying and learning and are able to have consistent employment. I don't juge people by conventional success. I feel that's a lot harder to achieve these days unless you go into a very straightforward field or you started out lucky. Of course I draw the line at slackers and drop outs.

It would really depend on why:

- was he caring for an ill-family member? I had a friend like this, who worked 2 jobs while completing undergrad, but he was the only one available to support his mother and his younger brother.

- was he too poor to go to college (had another friend like this) who had work dead-end jobs to accumulate enough capital to obtain a degree?

- does he have no sense of direction/ is lazy?

- was he coddled by his parents, and therefore feels no sense of urgency to establish himself?

Obviously, cases 1 and 2 are completely different from 3 and 4. Try and suss out the reason why.

Secondly, establish what their direction is. What are their long-term plans? How are they working to achieve them? I.e. if they're trying to go to medical/ law school, have they been doing research/ interning/ actively making connections? Or are they just bouncing around WITHOUT any kind of long term plan?

Again, jumping between jobs to get the capital you need to pursue your real dream is one thing; bouncing around without any overarching plan is another.