Non-binary men? And “hybrid masculinity”

This is facts... you're an absolute icon, summarising a complex issue like that in a single sentence 👌 I think this dude probably falls in the general category of "leftie-woke bro" scrotes, which FDS has done a FANTASTIC job of calling out 😂 The whiney softbois that definitely find a way to make their privilege-coated issues our problem.

@JayQualin thank you... I'm not cishet I'm a woman and I don't need AGPs and mentally ill people to redefine that for me thanks

This is a thing I was feeling. I have met NB biological males before, but I think the fact that the few I met lately were young, white, conventionally attractive, and solely interested in women had me feeling uneasy.

Same on the pronouns, I have 0 probs with that as it is of no consequence to me. I think I just don’t want to date people in male bodies, who present as men. Because what of the privilege they have over me in a patriarchal society that respects those who present with big, strong, masculine bodies and masculine/assertive energy (see “hegemonic masculinity”), which you can see in the way they are treated by others? What of the testosterone that manifests in more masculine ways and can have them more prone to aggression and intense sexual desire with me? Their stronger body that can overpower me? And all the sexual advantages his anatomy has over my anatomy? What of his childhood socialization to prioritize the self and subconsciously rely on feminine energy to carry the mental load, vs mine to prioritize the other (to the point of drain)? That all just…magically disappears when he says “I’m nonbinary”? The male/female power dynamic is still there, and I would NOT feel safe nor supported to have that waved off. That is my biggest concern as it could lead to all sorts of imbalances, like expecting 50/50 on everything, because he’s NB so we’re samesies now in the ways that conserve his resources and maximize his benefit, such as with sex and paying for things (but it’s still me really taking on more- the disproportionate sexual risk, the household and social calendar mental load, birth control, the extra time and expense to maintain feminine appeal, etc etc). And my detractor on this thread really couldn’t address any of it, but *could* go for “TERF!”ing at me. What she missed is I would be *more* inclined to date a nice transwoman than a NB man, because at least the former does face societal discrimination just by being out and about, and taking on feminine burdens such as sexual objectification and the efforts towards meeting beauty standards, which balances the power scales a little. But a NB man? His risks in the world still pale in comparison to mine, and potentially having to pretend that’s not true is just going to put me in another “take on the majority of responsibility and risk” situation.

this describes how I feel about it! It's not so much the gender that worries me, it's the why (is it genuine?) and the way their socialization has affected them (you can be gay/trans and still be misogynistic...).

@Queen Yeah I think it is more appropriate for a man to define as pro-feminism or feminist-aligned. Making it clear that he stands with the movement, but it’s not a movement that is *for* him. The more intersectional privilege a man possesses, the more ticked I get when he attempts to co-opt a concept that wasn’t designed with him in mind. ie the other day a man claimed I was “slut shaming” him for being promiscuous. Which is laughable because “slut shaming” was a term that came about to address gendered sexual double standards that worked against women, in order to vindicate women from that. It was *never* intended to be something men “got in on”, as they are wont to do like these oppressions are tools in a woodshed available to be used by anyone.

I personally believe in slut-shaming men lmao. If they whine I'll say it's my kink & throw *that* back at them 😘 (Pls God let this be a safe space 😂)

@hopeful_flounder93 this is pure WINNING!

Thank you for putting this into words so well. Yes, I think I could make it work if the “passing privilege” (and the benefits that come with it) are acknowledged, as well as 1) their inherent privilege over me sexually what with possessing male anatomy and 2) the respective differences of our “self first” vs “others first” childhood socialization according to what gender we were raised in. And that the power scale is still nowhere *close* to being balanced just bc they’re NB. They still have to wait on sex, they still have to respect my disproportionate risk, they still have to court me and pay for dates until we are committed, because that male/female energy dynamic still exists. What I don’t tolerate is using one’s newly adopted identity to forfeit all responsibilities of a male in het dating and continue to avoid typical female responsibilities (the hair/nails/safety plan/birth control/social calendering/aggression placation/disproportionate sexual risk etc), while still retaining the privileges (plus getting some new ones that typically go to women such as being courted bc they can “have it all” now), to get the best possible deal. And I see men (and those socialized as male) do this low effort shortcutting all the time….it’s the whole reason the “mental load” for women exists. I don’t deny the existence of NB, but when men are socialized to exploit concepts as tools for personal benefit (using Hinge for hookups when it’s for dating! using “slut shaming” as a workaround to justify their promiscuity when the term was not intended for male bodies! asking for dates they expect me to plan! derailing women’s concerns!), I don’t think those “self-oriented” instincts magically disappear. So I don’t trust them to not utilize their valid NB identity as a tool as well as an added bonus to that identity, to keep most of the labor and effort in my court (and the power in theirs). It’s hard enough getting cismen these days to do their part and acknowledge their privilege, to take on the added work of not being able to defend myself bc the NB guy can just pull out the “TERF” card to end the discussion and continue to drain me dry, and I can’t object or it means I’m not progressive.

@RaiseTheBar I think the question now is: how do you get him to share his opinion about his privilege?

@Space97 Sure, but their struggles don’t give them the right to demand occupation of women’s spaces. Trans struggles are not caused by women. They can blame the patriarchy for that one, yet they still seem to point the finger at women bc they still share an underlying camaraderie with men.

"If a man finds out they have a dick or was born with one they would flip for deceiving them" These Trans are actively DECEIVING these men...instead of sticking to dudes who like other men, they insist on chasing after straight dicks, which is fucking rapey and creepy in itself...these trans lie to straight men to sleep with them (which makes it rape by deception btw) then act as the victim when they get their ass beat! 🤨 It's safe to say that these trans mtfs are creating their own struggles...cause if they were to mind their own businesses, leave straight men alone and stop trying to deceive them...most of these things wouldn't happen...

@GiovaneFoca Men who "present as" women are never really treated as women because everyone can see that they're really men. They are coddled and treated as a "special" type of man.