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Not that it ever seemed appealing as a South Asian woman to begin with, but on meeting 2 of my school friends - both of whom got married less than a year ago - i got more first hand accounts. They had horror stories to tell about their mother-in-laws and sister-in-laws and one had such stories about her husband too (although she didn't seem to count the husband ones as horror stories).
Some background - Friend A got married 8 months ago, lives in a joint family with her husband, husband's younger brother and parents. She has a married sister-in-law who lives in a city a few hours away.
Friend B got married a year ago, spent the first 4 months or so living with her husband's parents until her and husband moved to another city for his job, now it's just the two of them.
What they told me yesterday:
Friend A : Her SIL can be really toxic, which -in her words - could be manageable had she not developed a habit of dropping in every other month with her two kids. Whenever she is around she tries instigating A's MIL against her , her kids(7 and 4) insist on sleeping with A and her husband in their bed and she says nothing to her brood, recently she created a scene when A wanted to come to her brother's house for Rakshabandhan (a festival celebrated with siblings), she also taunted A's MIL saying -"Have you no control over your daughter-in-law, look how she wants to leave instead of celebrating here with her husband's siblings "(How ironic considering sister-in-law herself had come to her brother's house to celebrate). A can't wear shorts or skirts or dresses at home UNLESS she is in her bedroom (and she MUST change when she steps out), she told me it was nice to be back home as she could watch Netflix again - apparently she is so busy otherwise that she doesn't even watch TV, and this is an affluent family with an army of servants at home . I was able to meet her as she was finally "allowed" to come home after Rakshabandhan .
She also told me something disturbing about her husband - he is easily manipulated by his mom and sister, she has also spotted messages in his phone to a woman twice, she confronted him the very first time and he apologized then later she found them again.
Once because of sister-in-law's toxicity A had an argument with her over call and stopped speaking to her for a while, her husband forced her to go with him to sister-in-law's city so they could reconcile - against A's wishes, as if her feelings don't matter. A also mentioned how SIL would be furious when she has kids as her own children would no longer be a priority in the eyes of grandparents.
Friend B - slightly better off i guess since she no longer has to live with "mummyji and papaji". Anyway she told me how once upon posting an Instagram picture in shorts(this was after she had already moved away) she received a call from her mother-in-law, apparently sister-in-law was following her account and sent a screenshot to her mother. Her husband is supportive so he told his mom how he has no problem with his wife wearing shorts, which is when MIL piped down. (Why does she need her husband's permission anyway?!). SIL and MIL were very controlling when she was living with MIL in the initial days - they didn't have a cook and B had to prepare meals, she also had to dress conservatively and MIL would insert herself into any outings her and husband planned. Living apart has made her problems reduce albeit there is still so much policing of her life. MIL once pointed out how my friend had employed a cook now ,thus wasting all the effort MIL put into teaching her how to cook.
My two friends actually come from and married into economically stable households. They kept telling me again and again how i should marry very carefully. It was sad to see them, especially Friend A, and she is planning to have kids on top of that.
I am an only child who grew up very comfortably. I am starting my residency soon and have zero tolerance for bullshit.
My question to other South Asian women on here is - how did/do you navigate through marriage and dating in a culture that can be so anti-women? I would like to marry at some point in life but as i said, it doesn't look appealing at all.
If you feel like it, don't hesitate to date outside your culture. Not that there's any place free of messy men, the western guys are their own kind of breed, but at least MILs/SILs usually stay out of relationships. And focusing on career/ no kids is less of a big deal. I just keep seeing online comments by Indian men that no one wants to date them, but then I see there's 50 million more men in India than women (which doesn't happen on accident) and the stuff Indian women have to deal with, and I'm like, yeah no wonder Indian dudes stay single, stop blaming women for it.
I am an Indian American. But in my (limited) experience dating in India, it seems like it's a game of extreme vetting. American woman will have to filter through 200 men, Indian woman will have to filter through 800 men (4x population + gender ratios of more men than women).
I wouldn't recommend using the apps for dating there because it's too exhausting and meeting strangers in a country that does not adequately protect woman can be dangerous.
I would focus on expanding your network of known people/families and meeting men through that. Or using matrimonial sites and specifying 'feminist', 'modern' or other keywords.
Also, fds style vetting extends to his family too. Why do they want to get their son married off? Are they looking for a maid? Do they want a daughter in law to love and treasure? Are they desperate for grandchildren and will pressure you into that? How are they treating any existing daughters in law? Does the MIL want someone to control?
Test them by for example, wearing shorts and other clothing you want to around his family. If they throw a fit, see how your partner responds.
It's easy to victimize yourself, but having dated in both countries, there are challenges everywhere. American men are noncommittal and want to have sex on the first date. Indian men are much more likely to commit and there is no cultural pressure on women to have sex before a committed relationship.
You know, if you're interested in how I navigated what I want for my marriage as a SA woman — even though I am only 22.
I saw this ted talk by a scientist on understanding the brain in love. She made me realize love is a scientifically measurable thing. It is a chemical our brain releases. There is a part of the brain that gets activated if you're in love, a part that gets activated when you're sexually attracted, and a part that gets activated when you are emotionally attached to a partner.
All 3 are activated when you're in love with a person, or it can be like a person is emotionally attached to their previous partner, in love with the person they date now, and sexual attracted to all the people they perceive as attractive. But we can only be in love with one person at a time.
Then she went on to explain that once we fall in love, that chemical is only released for two years. That chemical also makes us preceive the person we're in love with as more attractive then they are; as if they're is a filter on them for those 2 years. This is the reason we can romantically fall in love with someone who is not our type (guard your heart fdsers!)
At age 12, when I was left to process the fact that even if I got to fall in love and have a "love marriage" (this was still forbidden to talk about infront of my grandfather), it would just go away after 2 years anyways! So, what lasts after two years? My physical type would not change in two years. The economic situation would most likely not change in 2 years and if — god forbid — it did, my husband should be someone that's not afraid of hard work and ambitious enough to make sure we are again.
I also overheard that, after a few years, both arranged and non-arranged marriage couples report the same level of satisfaction. Though I suspect this is because they polled NRI's and not indians in India. Because in India, whether you have a live marriage or an arranged marriage you deal with the same in-laws and cowardly husbands who would never side with someone against their parents.
I would watch youtubers and forum users talk about the dreaded phase of the relationship where you both feel comfortable using the bathroom infront of each other with the door open. How eventually almost every relationship reaches the point of feeling no spark, no more physical attraction, not finding each interested anymore and getting on each others nerves more than you make each other happy. Missing the excitement in life when you were single or at the beginning of the relationship. Just like roommates, especially when you stop having sex.
Basically, the "honeymoon" phase being over is when the love chemical stops after two years and you see each other objectively for the first time. You may still be two attractive individuals and each other's types, but no relationship can recover from peeing infront of each other or changing a pad infront of eachother. Or staring at each other’s ugliest postures for hours.
I decided I don't mind falling in love as a treat to make the beginning more enjoyable, but I need to make sure my partner is my physical type, and someone who is agreeable to me, and gives me the lifestyle I want.
After my grandfather died, my family had 3 love marriages in the family back to back. 1 of them was good, two of them were toxic. An aunt married her toxic, verbally abusive, unfaithful, secret boyfriend and my mother married a guy who decided he doesn't like his wife anymore. This man couldn't bear to be nice to my mother and not put her down. He liked me and couldn't understand why I don't like him or consider him my father. Everytime he made my mother sad while she only built him up, I hated him more.
My aunt has the most successful husband and he is HV. He's more of a feminist then me, he'll correct me when he finds me slipping when it comes to judging women. He's about to make a CEO and he worked tirelessly to give her the life she deserves since they got married.
At 18, I had to process this. Love marriages are suddenly allowed and expected in my family. Except for my grandfather, I come from a family of women. I also realized, I have extremely bad dissociation in relationships. I feel like I don't ever get attached to anyone. I also never miss anyone. When I had to move, my friends would call me and get emotionally about how much they miss me, I felt awful that I didn't feel the same. I consciously care for them deeply and find them infinitely find them interesting, I just can't miss them.
I couldn't miss my mother when I got separated from her for the first time in my memory. I really thought it would improve my relationship with her because I'll finally miss her instead of willing. But instead I never missed her or thought about her for months. This is when I realized I have an attachment disorder and I can't miss anyone no matter how close I am to him.
There are these youtubers, anthony Padilla and kalel. Everyone hates kalel, because when her and Anthony spent time apart, he missed her terribly and she just enjoyed her time. This made me realize if you don't love your romantic partner nearly as much as they love you — people will talk about you as if you're an evil woman.
At the same time Ariana grande was so hated for not loving mac miller anymore. For moving on after a 2 year relationship when he could not move on from her. They blamed her for his death for months.
This also turned me off from love marriages because I was thinking about how my dissociation would harm a romantic relationship compared to a friend relationship. My family would be understanding, but my friends would be heartbroken if I told them I don't have the ability to miss them.
Would a romantic partner come to resent my if I don't grow to care about him the way he grows to care about me? Men are daft, I could just not say anything and joke around with him. What if I slip someday like kalel? Will I be seen as an evil woman who took advantage of him and wasted his years making him think I love him just to use? I don't want random fight because he feels used and mislead just because I can't control my dissociation.
I decided I did not want the emotional burden of a romantic relationship because I cannot fulfill the natural expectations that come with it. I am confident I cannot fall in love and it could ruin a relationship that benefits my life a lot.
My grandparents had a pure arranged marriage. Their parents could pick anyone they want. They enjoyed financial comfort together, loved their kids, lived in another country from their in-laws. My grandfather never expected my grandmother to fall in love with him. It's okay if she got feelings for him, it's okay if she didn't, that doesn't determine whether she's a good wife. He, however, was extremely jealous as husband.
I wondered if it was possible for me to have the same thing. I started bluntly telling everyone at home that I decided I will have an arranged marriage and it's their job to pick the best match for me. What I really meant was only my aunt and her HV husband can choose for me. If I developed feelings for my husband, good for me. I didn't, how could you fault me? I decided not to go against tradition and have an arranged marriage, but I can't control developing romantic feelings 🙃.
I also thought a lot about how, 100 years ago, how many people were concerned about whether they loved the person they're going to marry? Women in the 1920s weren't like, "oh I found a good man, he's rich, he respects me, but do I love him?".
It's crazy to think that Hollywood and other forms of media made us think love is essential and necessary for a marriage when not even a hundred years ago and for all of recorded human history, it wasn't a big concern for people that wanted to get married! And it didn't effect long term happiness. Medieval villagers probably had to get shot gun weddings because they got pregnant all the time. The person they fell romantically in love with became the person they resented.
All these videos of incels getting angry at women for not choosing them. Scrotes publicly confronting women for rejecting them. What if I could say that I'm Indian and I'm going to get an arranged marriage? What scrote has the balls to question my father or uncle for not giving him a chance with me if they feel he's not a good choice for me 🤣. They don't have the balls.
I decided even if I choose my husband, I would have my family infront of me to reject men for me. Like it wasn't my choice. That made me feel so much safer. No one could "confront" for liking them yesterday and not liking them anymore.
The last thing I told my aunt about this was that even if I really liked someone or fell in love, my marriage would be atleast semi-arranged because I will change my mind about being with any person that her and my uncle found shady.
I mean she is the one cycle breaker in my family. Her sisters married men that would them in the same emotional position my grandfather put my mother in — never going out, being controlling about whether they can see their family, cheating. My uncle is very critical of SA men and educates himself on the harm in our community. My aunt goes out with co-workers at night for drinks, my mom and her sister won't think of doing that in this life.
However, I completely stopped all plans of getting an arranged marriage at 22 and plan to only have a semi arranged marriage (as in I choose someone, but my aunt and uncles thinking he's a good choice is essential).
I had a majot realization about Indian men. Their emotional and romantic expectations are completely different from my dad and grandfather's generation. They feel entitled for you to love them the same as you would love a love marriage partner.
The ones that still want an arranged marriage want it because they believe it's a hack to get to have everything a couple in a love marriages has without having to risk rejection, win you over, or put effort to get a girl to like them. This is what I learned when I watched an arranged marriage vs love marriages video by the youtube channel jubilee.
So, if I will have the same expectations to provide romantic love and romantic experiences whether I get into an arranged marriage or a love marriage? What do I gain from an arranged marriage if it would require me owing the same amount of love and the same amount of emotional labour.
There are scrotes who want the validation of receiving romantic love from a girl that will have sex with them the same way incels do. They know that if they went on tinder they would never get swipes, so they depend on arrange marriage.
If their parents get someone they don't even know to marry them they will never have to win you over or "put effort" to get a girl to like them. And I want more than anything to for them to be a victim of natural selection and no longer have the safety that the arranged marriage industry provides them.
I got really into scripting. Scripting my life, my dream life, my dream husband into a notebook. I watch all these youtubers that talk about how they manifested their dream job, dream life, dream body and of course, dream husband. I'm going to expect what I wrote to just come true, but I will write everything I could ever want down and forget about it and focus on my own happiness as an ambitious, single woman.
You know what? How about extreme honesty about after I get a diagnosis for dissociation or whatever I have. I'll be frank with my husband and tell him my emotional limitations put I will do my part to make him feel emotional secure. Most men's love language is touch and I am an extremely touchy person especially with someone I am attracted to.
https://youtube.com/shorts/DX9EhYIIAXw?feature=share
If they're not gonna chase you and put effort before marriage why would they do it after? Those are the remaining SA men that still want arranged marriages. Atleast with a semi arranged marriage he has to win me over completely for a long period of time.
As a fellow Indian woman , it's great to see another Indian woman with FDS values. I really miss FDS on reddit , the TwoXIndia sub is so rampant with liberal feminism that it makes me scared for the average, educated, Indian woman. Even mentioning a single FDS value on the sub garners immense hate and gaslighting.
This entire situation is just exhausting to me. I'm not in the culture but as a fellow WOC I truly wish you the best.
Keep an eye out for these signs (and there always are signs) during the time of dating itself. Avoid people who use certain keywords, such as "family-oriented".
Are you able to have a love marriage in op? Btw NRIs are not tolerating shit from in-laws these days. Especially the ones that were born and raised.
If you are happy looking after your parents alone as they grow old, and it's not easy at all, then definitely stay single. There is too much inlaw BS in South Asian marriages to throw away a good situation for a likely mummy's boy.