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Hello Queens!
Hope everyone is doing well. This is my first scrote related post here.
A recent experience alongwith this part from a webtoon I'm reading sparked a thought in my mind that I haven't been able to conclude. Thought I should share it here for some inputs :)
I became friends with a guy from middle school during our university more than a decade ago now. Our arranged marriage preferring Indian parents always kept pushing us towards each other since we 'became of age' and realised we were good friends with similarities. Both of us would disagree with our parents and politely tell them to, let's say, stfu.
However, since we turned 27/28 they started becoming pretty aggressive about it because we were getting too old for the market, per say. I managed my parents with equal and/or more aggression. He, however, started losing his will to fight over the years as he failed 2 of his relationships. He has worked on himself over the years pretty well however, he still has a LOT of scope for improvement (which, honestly, i started seeing after joining FDS, love y'all).
Couple of weeks back, he visited his family for a wedding where he was bombarded with the topic and nagging for marriage. Of course, I was the subject. He was freshly dumped by his ex because she wanted to focus on her studies(Queen👑💅) and was feeling super down for months. He caved in and asked me out, on text. I didn't hate his proposal, however, I declined him and gave a couple of reasons(1)He wants kids, I don't (2)I'm generally not fond of sex and almost never feel horny while I'm pretty aware of how he enjoys hooking with mutually consented tinder matches once in a while(which he says is rare) (3)I am painfully aware of what parents in India expect out of a daughter in law and I am strongly not up for it. Full power and respect to the women who handle it by choice, however, it is not for me.
He responds (1)He changed his mind now and doesn't want kids either(my interpretation- since you are my option, no kids, I suspect he will change his mind in the future) (2)"Intimacy is an important part of a relationship" (to me it sounded like "since you my wife, we gotta have sex and you need to work on it") (3) He does not expect a traditional indian marriage setting, just a partnership where we take care of each other's parents when they become old(yea, I'm confident y'all ladies interpret this the same as I did)
This was all on text, not even a call. I suck at assertive rejections (I understand I need to work on it) so I spoke about how I might not want to become my parent's caretaker in the future and would definitely look for other options or help, and since I am so 'heartless' towards my parents, I might do the same to other's parents. This guy agreed and said we should discuss this again once I have "sorted out my complex emotions" 🥸🤧while throwing some random compliments.
Another good friend had asked me out in high school, saying, if we don't have any partners by age of 30, let's get married. Ladies, I can't even --🤡
Anyway, my question.
Do men acquire god tier confidence? when they maintain decent friendships with women, that makes them propose in the weakest, lamest ways possible and women would accept because We aRe FRieNdS aNd We KnOw eACh OthER sO wEll AlrEaDY. Also, I DoN'T wAnT tO RuIn OuR FriENdShIp.
If we really are good friends where you value our friendship so much, how come you are not showing it through a powerful and impressive proposal?
I understand the topic of having male "friends" itself is debatable and we can keep discussing about everything that may or may not result from considering them as such. FDS podcast has also listed some great points to consider while indulging with friendships with men in general.
Tldr; Male friends propose relationships and marriage with the confidence of a mountain goat in weakass ways and 0 efforts. Would love to hear about experiences and inputs from everyone here.
Sounds really rapey. Gross.
Your complex emotions!!! As if you are a problem and you need to solve yourself!?! Queen you are not a problem! And there's nothing, NOTHING, complex about "you want kids and I dont" or "I just like you as a friend" or "I'm not interested in the traditional daughter in law role". That is the very definition of SIMPLE.
*wipes tears of mirth from eyes* oh my fucking LORD, the audacity of this cheap, low effort scrote.
I’m sorry, ‘we should discuss this again when you’ve sorted out your ‘complex emotions’?’ Er, no. We shouldn’t. There is nothing further to discuss. This, THIS is why I will no longer entertain men as ‘friends‘ - for them it’s just an easy, cheap way to get their foot in the door and angle towards something more whilst bypassing the normal courting process entirely.
Also, he only hooks up with random tinder matches occasionally, so that makes it totally ok? Ahahahahahaha, stop, my sides are splitting here!
Don't marry him.
I understand this whole trope of "OMG BEST FRIENDS MAKE THE BEST LOVERS UWU" but it hardly ever works in reality. Media just hypes it up to sell their books, movies, and other shit for profits, and has no basis in logic or reality. Just because a woman knows a man since childhood does not suddenly mean he's HVM, marriage material, or even would make a good boyfriend for her in particular. Compatibility in a romantic setting is very different from compatibility when it comes to friendships.
You can cultivate a best friend type of friendship with a man you just met and then become his girlfriend/wife later on. A deep platonic type of respect and familiarity can be born in a romantic relationship.
This man you're describing doesn't even sound that excited to be with you in that way. He's settling and you know it. You both deserve better than settling. Please don't go out with him. I can't see this ending well for you at all.
Damn, he's not even hiding that he's looking for a situationship.
At least when my guy friends asked me out, they tried to come off like they actually like me. Though who really knows what they're thinking? I said no, I don't want to do that (I didn't say why, but I'm sure they can figure out I'm not attracted to them). To their credit, they respectfully accepted the no and didn't keep pushing it. They were smart enough not to ask why, probably because they knew they weren't going to like the answer.
What was that "you need to work on yourself so you can be a proper wife to me" nonsense? I would have been like "how about no? Because I already said no to the date."
When you explain yourself too much, some guys see that as an opening to argue with you.
But at least now you know just how disrespectful he is.
Fellow Indian here, I extend my sympathies and send lots of hugs! You're doing great, you're on the right path. (you know this already, but I want to reaffirm it anyway.) And yes, male entitlement knows no bounds 😠
A male in my family is getting married soon to his pick me girlfriend of 5 years.
Funny story- when the girl came to visit, his mother asked him if he planned to drop her to the airport. He replied, "chivalry is only in the beginning stages, we don't do all that now" in front of everyone. The girl smiled and laughed along. 😑
Both are highly educated and rich. If you saw them, you would think they are the perfect modern couple, made for each other, etc. etc. But the way his mother talks about her future daughter in law is terrifying. As expected, she sees her as practically a servant
What's the truly sad part is that the girl's parents also expect the same. Parents are supposed to love us, but misogyny and woman hating is sooo internalized- they think that it is expected and natural and GOOD for a woman to become subservient. It's sad to see our own parents behave in misogynistic and regressive ways, but that's the way things are unfortunately. So don't feel guilty and keep going.
I see why he’s single. He deserves to be. As you said, it’s lazy that it was over text (so unromantic) and then he’s offering himself up on a silver platter but then tries to make demands! The desperate one doesn’t get to be picky!
As I was reading about your friend I was going "Nope. Nope. Nope!" Happy you found us here sister 😊 it sounds like it's keeping you safe
If you're not absolutely psyched to marry a guy, why would you? If you can provide for yourself, why give yourself an extra job in the form of a man and his unpleasable family? I know Indian culture is pretty strict, as I have some male Indian friends, but even they refused their arranged marriages. If they cannot arrange to find someone you're happy about, just don't do it. Marriage could be a wonderful experience if you find a man who likes you and treats you well, but it's never ending suffering if you're with a bad man. I've seen too many women marry bad men, and it's the women who suffer. A woman just becomes his slave appendage that makes him look responsible in public. F that. These are new times.
The fact that he responded "intimacy is important to me" as if you two were negotiating and he had something to offer to hold this "standard" is so bizarre and entitled. I think because a lot of men only form friendships with women they find attractive enough to sleep with at some point, they project this nonsense onto women and think that if we talk to them regularly enough, we must be totally attracted to them too (that "complex emotions" comment definitely makes it sound like you're secretly into him or something, ugh). Especially considering the comments I see on social media about how "women only keep men around to use them, or if they're in the same league physically, yada yada" 🤡 Literally projecting their own trashy mindset.
To answer your question, I have a very specific example that opened my eyes: there was one friendship I ended with a man because he started following redpill ideology around the same time he weakly "confessed" to me with something like "We can both agree I've had feelings for you at some point" to make a different point in conversation. At first I thought he meant when we'd first met, before he learned I was in a relationship, but then he'd say stuff like how I was "making him tilt" but then say "don't get bothered over this though, it's my problem." Really freaked me out, that one.
Later on he mentioned that he thought there might be "mutual attraction," only after I directly asked him "do you think there's something going on between us then, since you think male-female friendships always have hidden dynamics?"
So that whole time he had the delusion that I was into him, trying to impress him, and reading way too much into the Facebook chat stickers I send as "flirting" (and also refused me believe me when I said there was zero meaning until I went and explained the actual "meaning" of those stickers like "I was probably hungry so sent that sticker of the dog twirling spaghetti").
He also said something like "I've been putting my best foot forward" (for what purpose?? I would never date you let alone leave a relationship for you) despite the fact that in the month right before he "confessed," he started making himself out to be some guy with "options" aka redpill trash who keep women they aren't really into around for sex. Since he's very cautious/reserved/introverted/has never made any misogynistic comments prior and I honestly couldn't imagine him in any sexual capacity, it kind of slipped past my radar because I only had mild "wtf" internal reactions and didn't fully process the ridiculous audacity until weeks later.