Do you think its possible for "stupid/ugly" men to be hvm?

For the millionth time, being HV is not about intelligence or appearance. Same deal for both men and women. Being HV is about being a decent human being with strong morals and values, having sound confidence and being self-assured. Also, HVM are not a monolith. Whether he is HVM for YOU also comes down to compatibility and shared values. I’ve known guys who weren’t particularly intellectual that had hearts of gold and men who were academics that were absolute NVM. The value these men hold to you is largely about CHARACTER. Having physical preferences is fine, but if a guy is a horrible person, his looks mean shit.

Staying stupid/ugly is not fate but often a sign of lazyness and complacency and that's a highly unattractive LV trait to me.

Didn't win the genetic lottery? Work out, live a healthy lifestyle, groom yourself and be hygienic. Find a hair- and clothing style that flatters you. Use skincare. Work on your manners and personality and being a good conversationalist. You know, all the things women are conditioned to do from childhood on. A well-groomed, fit man who knows how to dress and is fun and interesting to be around is way more attractive than a slob with good bone structure.

Education has never been easier to access than now. That doesn't mean college. Read books from the library, watch documentaries, stay up-to-date on current events and their backgrounds. Take an interest in the world around you and its history. Not being an academic or not excelling in school doesn't make you stupid. Not having a thirst for knowledge and an interest in things (of any kind) does.

I mean attractiveness is subjective. You may find a guy unattractive but someone else may think he is handsome. As for stupid, it's more about how compatible you are. If you think your partner is stupid or ugly you shouldn't date them.

You are reminding me of a not-particularly-handsome man I know who dresses Beautifully, has a wonderful family who he obviously loves and takes good care of. He is strikingly attractive because of who he is, his confidence, his energy.

I don’t think it’s possible for stupid men to be hv. Ugly men can be hv, I know an unattractive couple and they both seem like hv people.

Ugly, yes. An ugly man can be charming as hell, full of confidence, with a great sense of humor, and be genuinely kind. If he has great hygiene, good style, interesting hobbies, and treats women with genuine respect, then those are the things that will draw the focus. Attractiveness is also subjective, and what one person finds ugly, another may find quirky and hot.

Stupid, no. Stupid is never a HV trait. It limits how you see and interact with the world. Stupid men are tiresome and annoying.

I dunno, most ugly men are so entitled. If you find someone ugly, would you rather not find a man you would be attracted to fully rather than having to compromise? Because you will not be getting any rewards for settling, and you run a high risk of being screwed over by said men. Remember ugly men feel they are owed super models thanks to their upbringing, even when they get such "hotties" they still cheat on them. Even when people get older, they still age better because they went through the simple effort of using moisturiser and sunscreen. Ugliness seems like a lack of effort more than anything.

I do not. I think they should be weeded out by natural selection….or rather not being selected to pass on their genes.

*Sigh*

Yeah, if it's someone like Forrest Gump.

ok, so you defined "stupid" by someone who makes poor decisions. Of course that's not HV--you don't want someone who is going to gamble away all their money or invest in Dogecoin.

As for "ugly", looks are subjective, and a man with a good character, who is well groomed and makes an effort can of course still be high value even if not conventionally attractive.

I agree that HV is not necessarily about intelligence, commonly-agreed-upon "good looks," or even age. But you sure wouldn't know it from some FDS posts/comments (at least during the Reddit phase) where women bashed men simply for being bald, wrinkled, "dusty" (old), or just unlucky in the genetics/looks department. I agree that an older man is not a good match for a young queen, just because I don't think big age gaps are a good idea (I would say the exact same for older woman / younger man). But I always wanted to write a post reminding some of the FDS women that there ARE some middle-aged women here, and we are naturally trying to date the very age-demographic that they like to disparage. YES, I believe that everyone should look as well-put-together as they can, everyone should prioritize their health, etc.

Now, as to the OP's question -- I think it's simply a matter of what you're looking for. Is it a good idea for a not-very-intelligent but otherwise HV woman to want to "date up" to an intelligent HVM? I'm not sure about that. I'm not clear on why either of the people would want that. You need to be able to meet someone on an even conversational ground. And you don't want to create or buy into a "Pygmalion" sort of dynamic, where the more intelligent partner is constantly trying to educate the other, bring him/her up to the higher level. (Makes me cringe just to think about it.)

I think HVM is more about how they're treating the people around them, not everyone has the luxury to have an education or spend hours upon hours reading about subjects. I've never seen specific knowledge be much of an indicator about character. Emotional intelligence and empathy are way better indicators.