Do you counter a date offer when you don’t like the venue?

My gut response:

The venue a man picks for a first date is very telling of his overall minset, his station in life, and his attitude towards women.

This man is treating you like you're 18-22 years old. As a late-30s professional woman, you should feel insulted. I certainly would.

There is a whole class of 30-50-something Peter Pan manlets who pull this kind of shit—treat full-grown women like they're teenagers by taking them on dates fit for teenagers. What they are doing is infantilizing you. They will cut corners by cutting costs in all aspects of any type of relationship you choose to have with them. They are immature and cheap. They will encourage you to perform like a porn star and act like an 18-22-year-old to fit in with their lifestyle.

I don't like being the naysayer, but I think this man is just not your level. He is beneath you.

My policy towards first dates: if I feel like I need to "correct" his choice of venue, then I will absolutely not go on the date.

I hate when they do this. They pick somewhere not shitty but also not romantic, and because it's not necessarily shitty, you feel like you have no right to complain. I've wondered before if this is a weaponized incompetence tactic.

This one is most likely a manchild and big into things like video games and comics. He is focusing on what he likes, not on what he thinks you would like. I would try politely suggesting he choose somewhere else. I would then also expect him to throw a little tantrum, resent you for that, and then tell you coffee and a walk in order to retaliate against you. But try it, see what he says.

Venues like this are off-putting and not romantic. He's going right up to the "shitty" line without crossing it. I wonder if he's good at pushing boundaries in other ways.

For me it depends. If it's a reasonable, HV offer that's just not an option for me for reasons he couldn't have anticipated (like an allergy or bad memories about that specific place), I will ask him to propose something else. If the offer itself is weird or LV I take that as a sign that we are not compatible and end it.

A venue like you describe would probably be an "end it" for me, because I want something more serious, intimate and romantic for a first date, not something that's essentially an arcade. A grown man offering a first date like this tells me he's immature and probably looking for a "fun, low maintenance woman who will be like one of the guys". No thanks.

As a similarly stationed woman in her late 30s, this would be a flat out 'absolutely not, no way, no how' for me. I do not go on dates to the kind of places where children's or teenager's birthday parties could conceivably be held. A glorified arcade/shopping mall type vibe with shitty chain food? I think not. I'd be utterly insulted at this to be honest.

No, I ghost. We don't have time and energy to drag scrotes into proper dating rituals; if they are outing themselves as lvm/nvm, our work here is done.

Ladies, I canceled the date! My gut was telling me that this is not it for me. Thank you for your feedback.

First off, he chose a crappy location, and it already told me that we’re not compatible as far as what we enjoy, and our lifestyles. Secondly, we were actually supposed to have our date tonight (Friday). He asked me out on the date one week ago, and we agreed for Friday. Then two days ago, he informs me that he mistakenly double booked and already had preexisting plans tonight. Even if he innocently double booked, it does not look good that I am already allowing him to make a change of plans less than three days ahead of our date. He offered to change his plans for Friday, but wanted to see if I was willing to move to Saturday. I stupidly agreed to Saturday. I know better. Then he followed with this arcade restaurant offer.

Thirdly, he takes forever to respond to messages. He only writes me once a day, and it’s annoying during the date planning phase. For example, he reached out to me at 11 PM last night about the venue suggestion for a Saturday date. When I responded today around noon and told him I did not approve of the venue, I still have not heard back from him and it is 8:30pm in my location (out “date” was supposedly tomorrow at 7p).

So many red flags. I know better.

As for my weekend, I am excited. I’m getting massage tomorrow morning and checking out an art exhibit that I’ve been wanting to see. I’m also going to treat myself to a nice dinner and sit at the bar alone. I do have a date planned for Sunday, but as usual, I have low expectations with any man. Maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised, but I won’t hold my breath.



If you feel bored and dont mind possibly wasting time then go for it. But I think it speaks to a level of incompatibility that won't be solved by correcting his suggestion once. There are different kinds of women and men know this for sure.

There are the complete pick me cool girls with self esteem beyond trashed who will do netflix and chill - and guys will often offer that because why would they spend more on someone who will accept less?

There are middle of the road girls who respect themselves somewhat but are too insecure to question him if it seems he put in effort (it's the thought that counts mentality).

But a mature, classy, professional, intelligent well dressed lady like you... if they dont understand that these women are used to the best and the man's company has to measure up, then they are either dumb or trying to lowball you on purpose to bring you down to their level so you can be some kind of hunting trophy.

Another scenario is he may be "nice", but being from a small town he has no refined taste and has little interest in/knowledge of the finer things in life. So he imagines this place is good because it has expensive food of the variety he usually enjoys. Some guys like to play games because they are awkard at conversations and it takes the pressure off. Is that someone you could see yourself with?

I think you can say you'd prefer something different for a first date(like you said, somewhere quieter where you can talk), but I do think this place being his choice indicates that theres probably some level of incompatibility.

Just let him know, that he needs to pick something else. If you're like me (I'm also late 30's) and you're easily overstimulated by light, sound and people, it's totally understandable.

The place he picked sounds like it's only suitable for much younger people. He can do better, even if he's not familiar with your city. It takes less than 5mins to find a classy restaurant.

I think the response you suggested sounds perfect!

I dont think it’s a red flag that he suggested this - to me it sounds like it is a good date spot (just not a great fit for you for a first date) and he’s not trying to lowball you. He’s clearly putting some thought into where to take you. But once you tell him that’s not quite what you want he should come back with a nice dinner suggestion.

You don't "counter offer" this is YOU - your body, your feelings, your time, your effort, your risks of getting harmed/pregnant/attached. Counteroffering is what you do on ebay or at a yard sale not for dating.

It's pickme to counter a date offer. Just decline / delete block.

A hvm would have suggested and planned a proper real date.

To mw it sounds like he's trying to take you to that place which sounds like it's more up his alley. Yall are too grown for that.

"Thanks, but I'm not really a fan of that spot — too many kids running around with their families and the food is slow. What else did you have in mind?"

Then see what he does for his next move. Does he correct his mistake or fall apart and the whole thing collapses?

I am in my fifties, and I have never liked those kind of venues, not in my twenties or thirties... I may have gone as a family with my kids, and I am certain my young adult kids might go bowling with their partners there and grab a burger after, but for a first date, for a grown woman, I would say he is showing you who he is. It doesn't matter that he's out of town, it's obvious that this place is: brightly lit, and noisy with no intimate atmosphere. You already say he's punching and that's not going to change. I would say to him that you've reconsidered, thank him and block. Hold out for what you want... why wouldn't you do that? There are good HV men out there, yes they are not as common as the LVM, but that doesn't mean you have to sit on sticky plastic chairs and listen to mood pop music on a loop, while this stranger wipes mustard from his tie...!

I've been to places like this. It's fun. But it's loud. And you won't be able to talk much.

Since he's not from your city, it might be somewhere he wants to go and assumes you'll like it too. Or he doesn't know the vibe.

If I didn't want to go to a place like that, it's perfectly acceptable to say you don't feel like it's a good spot for a first date. He will either complain and not make any more effort or he will plan something a little more your style.

But it's a red flag if he asks

"WeLl wHaT dO YOu waNna Do?!"

Depends on what he suggested. McDonalds or a coffee date? Hell no, he's a cheapskate and not worth my time. Red Lobster (I know, but there's no other decent seafood spot in town so it's still a higher end date suggestion for this area) maybe, but I am allergic to shellfish and I will tell him that in my counter (which is another great test because you wouldn't believe the guys that tell me it'll be fine if I just get a steak ..... no it will not cause cross contamination is a thing).

I think what you suggested to counter with is fine, and his response to it will tell you a lot.

I had a scrote (he deserves this title for trying to hook up with and cheat on his ex) at a dingy ice cream parlour in the cheapest place in the city.

Looking back, I can’t believe I went. I guess I was lonely. I should have just cancelled last minute lol

His choice may be off the mark for you, but he doesn't know you. He's just trying to do something fun. Would you really want him to assume that because you're a lawyer and not young, you can't loosen up and have fun? Or, that lawyers are super serious (which, to many, would mean "boring")?

I think your reasons for not wanting to go are totally valid and you should simply tell him, which you did. Good! I think you can casually express your concerns without making it heavy-handed or appearing to put him down.

LOTS of dating gurus including women are telling guys to NOT do the dinner date for first dates. I, too, am rather put-off by this advice because I, like you, want to dress up, chill, and have a conversation without straining to hear/yelling. (Or, feeling like the House Mother at a frat house because I'm surrounded by Baby Bros.) Generosity is not the issue because this arcade place is pricey. He's probably just listening to the current advice out there that dinner dates are stuffy and boring and we should be having Activity Dates. I get their view that sitting across from each other in close quarters ("interview style", they call it) can be intimidating for some. And, there are definitely activity dates I'd love on a first date, but probably not with someone I'd never met in person because then I'd be stuck for the time it took to complete the activity, and also, you're right--you can't hold a convo while bowling or playing Ms. Pac-Man.

I also certainly appreciate not being stuck with someone I don't know for the entirety of a dinner should we not hit it off. That's why I prefer drinks dates at nice, adult places (elegant restaurants, luxury hotel lounges) where I can have a nice glass of wine or craft cocktail and/or a nice appetizer in a culinary foodie-focused venue with the option of escaping quickly if I'm not enjoying it. A drink takes very little time, and you can leave in half an hour, if you need to. As long as you let them know upfront that it's just a "quick drink", it's not impolite. (Although, if they're well-behaved, I would give them an hour.) As they say, "be coming from somewhere and going somewhere". You're just meeting them in-between.

As they also say, "leave them wanting more". Don't linger on a first date and give them hours of your time before they've earned it. They won't know what to make of it and will be turned off, like you didn't make them work for it, or you had nothing else to do but hang out with them all night, or you exhausted all the mystery and now they've had their fill and don't need to see you again anytime soon, if ever. That's not our fault, but since we date men, we might as well know how their little brains work. It's like having sex with them "too soon" (whatever that means). They want it, but they don't value it, and that leads to them not valuing US. It sucks, but, again, that's dating men!

Good luck!

UPDATE: Looks like you cancelled completely. To be clear, nothing I said means more than you knowing he's not right for you. It sounds like you cancelled because of other reasons, not just this venue dilemma. Let's face it, if you had been excited about him, you'd have gone. Sounds like he just wasn't for you.

Do you think maybe you were trying to put a specific reason to it (i.e. the misguided venue choice) in order to explain what only your gut could tell you? Like, you know it's not right, but you can't explain why and you want a concrete, logical reason. Maybe there is none. Maybe it's just your gut saying, "Nope. Next!" What do you tnink?