Yes, it’s possible for men to evolve and mature. Just as many of us did not start as HVW, it can take some life experiences and passage of time for a man to grow into a true HVM. However, this doesn’t mean that men who are addicted to video games, porn, womanizing, or violence can quickly shape up. But I have witnessed good men put in the personal work to become even more confident, successful, assertive, and self-aware.
HVM may have had unhappy, immature, or unsuitable relationships in their youth. But a HVM has never demeaned or harmed a woman, and he is eager to continually better himself as he learns and grows. It’s important to know a man’s past so you can view the arc of his life and his decision-making for yourself.
I like to believe this as well. I was admittedly pretty LV in my twenties and I have changed immensely even over the past five years.
I do think that it has to be someone’s own choice (man or woman) to change though. If you think a man will change *for you* then I would have to say that’s not going to happen.
Unknown member
Oct 17, 2023
Replying to
This is a VERY female-centric view that does not take what MEN actually want into account.
It's incredibly self-centered to assume men want to grow as a person the same way women do.
I'd argue that most men CANNOT change. Not just because they don't WANT to live the life you'd want them to live (making comparisons to HVW is a set of false comparisons), but because a male who does not MALE properly will fail in getting what a male wants.
The only things that change men are laws, and women having boundaries that are enforced by OTHER WOMEN. Men will not, and never have, enforced men being loyal in marriage, because why the fuck would they?
But women beating a womans ass or ostracizing her for sleeping with a married man has an actual effect.
You think women can have all the social and sexual value, and men will become LIKE women to get it? They're either born that way or are being FORCED to act normal.
No, they just adjust their behavior when they realize their current behavior doesn't benefit them, Just like the men who think they have a lot of options until they get sick and all of the sudden seem to appreciate the women they mistreated. But do men change because they are finally grow up and understand that this behavior is unacceptable? Absolutely not.
They continue to behave their mothers allowed them until old age.
They don't change, but some get sneakier, better at wearing a mask, better at faking things, etc. They start to become better at hiding that they're cheaters and red pilled is all.
No. Men would never change for a woman. They might change and improve their own lives after following misognynistic celebrities likes Jordan peterson and Joe rogan, but they would never change for a woman.
How he treated his exes matter. If he calls them " crazy' or criticizes her in anyway, then that's a red flag. But you should never trust his version of the story. Men lie. All the time.
But I do think people can and do often change in general. How often that's for the better is debatable. And I do think there's an age component. If we're talking any man mid-20s and over it's a lot less likely. Middle aged and you're SOL.
But I know my boyfriend has actually changed since he was 14-18. He grew up in a rural/poor area and not many people around him, his age or adults, were a great influence, and many were a bad influence. His dad was an alcoholic who got through 5 wives before self-ejecting. His mom was wife #2, and his dad's student in college.
He got into the EDM scene, did a lot of drugs, did random stupid shit like steal CDs from cars/throw eggs at cars. This culminated in 2 days in jail for "criminal mischief" when the last stupid shit activity was a couple weeks after his 18th birthday. Around the same time he saw life choices start to catch up with the older people in that group in real ways. Quite a few are no longer alive, a couple are in prison for multiple homicide.
He left town with $4 to his name, worked construction to pay for college, worked in soul-killing sales to get a nest egg together, got his mba, and then worked in the nonprofit world to try to help other kids have someplace offering stability/a good influence. He does real estate investing now, but is still very involved with most of the charities/organizations related to that where we live.
I doubt he treated any high school fuck buddies amazingly (and has nothing bad to say about them). 95% of his body count happened when he was a teenager, then 5% over the next 18 years. But I know how he treats his ex wife, and she's the main "after the change" relationship. I know how he treats his mom. I know how he treats other female family members. When he talks about raising his daughter, he says some pretty fds shit.
So, people can. But age matters, and the prospect of not changing meaning really really bad outcomes helps, and it has to be for themselves. I don't think your average fuckboy has much incentive to.
Maybe it's all a mask, and all his actions have just been hiding who he really is. But 🤷🏼♀️ if he wants to keep doing the "new" actions forever then great.
Even with men that have gone through therapy, when they lose their shit, it all comes out. I’m at a point where I believe that therapy can’t fix men; some of them are just far beyond repair. 🤷🏻♀️
This goes for both genders, but if you haven’t fixed/ improved yourself by the time you hit 40, the person you are at that point is who you are for the rest of your life. Of course, I always get men correcting me saying that they’ve gone to therapy, they’re changed for the better, and that people just change throughout their life. That’s simply not true. When faced with shit, I know that they are quick to throw away what they learnt from therapy and revert to their old ways.
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Unknown member
Oct 16, 2023
Replying to
I agree 100%. People are who they are and they don't really change. I'd also like to point out to be very wary of anyone who claims that they've changed, especially if that person was abusive or cruel towards you. Firstly because it's not your place to judge whether you've changed or not. That's for other people to judge. Secondly, people who've genuinely changed don't go around announcing it.
In theory, yes, inasmuch as any human being can make changes. In practice, however, the odds of any given man actually making a wholehearted commitment to doing so are vanishingly small. We all know here just how much time, energy, and sustained effort - sometimes in the face of great difficulty and suffering - goes into making meaningful and lasting changes and frankly, most men don't appear to be willing or able to do this kind of work. Why would they, when there are so many readily available distractions out there in the world and so few consequences (to themselves at least) for not doing so?
Edited
8
Unknown member
Oct 17, 2023
Men are incapable of not being rapists at the core, and the majority of men are NOT capable of trying to dominate and enact male supremacy at every turn. They cannot change their base nature, but you can still date them.
Men do not fundamentally not become predators. But they do change tactics and WILL jump through hoops, even long-term, if you keep a flame under their ass.
Do people change? From time to time but the majority of the time, they stay the same. This is especially the case for men due to their laziness and feeling entitled to others changing for them. Also, society makes them feel that they don’t need to change so that adds to it.
Women have been made to believe that men change because enough media has convinced us that they do. They’ll come back and say how “you were the love of their lives” or that they’re sorry, “they made a mistake and want to start things over”. All lies. They return to us to try their luck with us. They’re curious to see if they can get us back if they wanted to and sadly, many of them succeed because we fall for their love bombing
This is why so many women break up with the guy for the exact reasons the relationship/situationship ended in the first place. Because men don’t change.
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Yes, it’s possible for men to evolve and mature. Just as many of us did not start as HVW, it can take some life experiences and passage of time for a man to grow into a true HVM. However, this doesn’t mean that men who are addicted to video games, porn, womanizing, or violence can quickly shape up. But I have witnessed good men put in the personal work to become even more confident, successful, assertive, and self-aware.
HVM may have had unhappy, immature, or unsuitable relationships in their youth. But a HVM has never demeaned or harmed a woman, and he is eager to continually better himself as he learns and grows. It’s important to know a man’s past so you can view the arc of his life and his decision-making for yourself.
No, they just adjust their behavior when they realize their current behavior doesn't benefit them, Just like the men who think they have a lot of options until they get sick and all of the sudden seem to appreciate the women they mistreated. But do men change because they are finally grow up and understand that this behavior is unacceptable? Absolutely not.
They continue to behave their mothers allowed them until old age.
Can--yes.
Worth waiting for? No
Don't be Barb the Builder. As the Good Book says.
They don't change, but some get sneakier, better at wearing a mask, better at faking things, etc. They start to become better at hiding that they're cheaters and red pilled is all.
No. Men would never change for a woman. They might change and improve their own lives after following misognynistic celebrities likes Jordan peterson and Joe rogan, but they would never change for a woman.
How he treated his exes matter. If he calls them " crazy' or criticizes her in anyway, then that's a red flag. But you should never trust his version of the story. Men lie. All the time.
They won't change for you or for any woman.
But I do think people can and do often change in general. How often that's for the better is debatable. And I do think there's an age component. If we're talking any man mid-20s and over it's a lot less likely. Middle aged and you're SOL.
But I know my boyfriend has actually changed since he was 14-18. He grew up in a rural/poor area and not many people around him, his age or adults, were a great influence, and many were a bad influence. His dad was an alcoholic who got through 5 wives before self-ejecting. His mom was wife #2, and his dad's student in college.
He got into the EDM scene, did a lot of drugs, did random stupid shit like steal CDs from cars/throw eggs at cars. This culminated in 2 days in jail for "criminal mischief" when the last stupid shit activity was a couple weeks after his 18th birthday. Around the same time he saw life choices start to catch up with the older people in that group in real ways. Quite a few are no longer alive, a couple are in prison for multiple homicide.
He left town with $4 to his name, worked construction to pay for college, worked in soul-killing sales to get a nest egg together, got his mba, and then worked in the nonprofit world to try to help other kids have someplace offering stability/a good influence. He does real estate investing now, but is still very involved with most of the charities/organizations related to that where we live.
I doubt he treated any high school fuck buddies amazingly (and has nothing bad to say about them). 95% of his body count happened when he was a teenager, then 5% over the next 18 years. But I know how he treats his ex wife, and she's the main "after the change" relationship. I know how he treats his mom. I know how he treats other female family members. When he talks about raising his daughter, he says some pretty fds shit.
So, people can. But age matters, and the prospect of not changing meaning really really bad outcomes helps, and it has to be for themselves. I don't think your average fuckboy has much incentive to.
Maybe it's all a mask, and all his actions have just been hiding who he really is. But 🤷🏼♀️ if he wants to keep doing the "new" actions forever then great.
No, they just get better at hiding it.
Even with men that have gone through therapy, when they lose their shit, it all comes out. I’m at a point where I believe that therapy can’t fix men; some of them are just far beyond repair. 🤷🏻♀️
This goes for both genders, but if you haven’t fixed/ improved yourself by the time you hit 40, the person you are at that point is who you are for the rest of your life. Of course, I always get men correcting me saying that they’ve gone to therapy, they’re changed for the better, and that people just change throughout their life. That’s simply not true. When faced with shit, I know that they are quick to throw away what they learnt from therapy and revert to their old ways.
In theory, yes, inasmuch as any human being can make changes. In practice, however, the odds of any given man actually making a wholehearted commitment to doing so are vanishingly small. We all know here just how much time, energy, and sustained effort - sometimes in the face of great difficulty and suffering - goes into making meaningful and lasting changes and frankly, most men don't appear to be willing or able to do this kind of work. Why would they, when there are so many readily available distractions out there in the world and so few consequences (to themselves at least) for not doing so?
Men are incapable of not being rapists at the core, and the majority of men are NOT capable of trying to dominate and enact male supremacy at every turn. They cannot change their base nature, but you can still date them.
Men do not fundamentally not become predators. But they do change tactics and WILL jump through hoops, even long-term, if you keep a flame under their ass.
No, men don't change for the better. If he's bad, there's a 99.9% chance that he'll stay that way. Don't waste your time.
No.
Can people change? Yes.
Do people change? From time to time but the majority of the time, they stay the same. This is especially the case for men due to their laziness and feeling entitled to others changing for them. Also, society makes them feel that they don’t need to change so that adds to it.
Women have been made to believe that men change because enough media has convinced us that they do. They’ll come back and say how “you were the love of their lives” or that they’re sorry, “they made a mistake and want to start things over”. All lies. They return to us to try their luck with us. They’re curious to see if they can get us back if they wanted to and sadly, many of them succeed because we fall for their love bombing
This is why so many women break up with the guy for the exact reasons the relationship/situationship ended in the first place. Because men don’t change.