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So, since finding FDS, I've done a lot of reflection on my past relationships and dating experiences. I won't lie, they were all traumatic. Some were traumatic because of how the men treated me, but mostly I just carry a lot of shame toward my own behavior. Mainly, I am ashamed of how I would cry in front of these men.
I think back to the times where I felt hurt enough to cry, and the part that traumatized me was their reactions. Most of them did not know what to do and would shut down and go cold, which would usually escalate the level of pain I was feeling. I met someone last Spring who I honestly thought could have been "the one." He was more HV than anyone I had ever dated, we had loads in common, and I was very optimistic of the future with him. But, after just 2 months, we were on our first weekend getaway together and he just went cold. We were walking in Central Park and he would not look at me or talk to me. He was walking faster and in front of me and I asked him if everything was okay. He kind of just snapped and got annoyed at me for asking. I cOmMuNiCaTeD that I was hoping for a nice romantic walk and that he would hold my hand. He shrugged that off. After a little longer of this happening, I ended up having a panic attack and an outburst of tears. I felt so scared because I was in an unfamiliar area (I'm not from NY) and didn't know what to do, or how I could remove myself from the situation since we had traveled together to get there. I walked away from him in the park so that I could find some privacy to calm myself down and tried calling a friend for advice. About an hour passed and I still didn't know where my date was. He did not follow me or attempt to soothe me. He just let me walk away. My friend convinced me to try to find him and then go back to the hotel room and survive the rest of the trip with him (there was just one more night) so that's what I did. Later that night, we had tickets to see Hamilton, and I ended up having another panic attack during the show because his coldness was triggering me again. I could tell he was annoyed with me and it didn't help. I was so embarrassed crying like that in public and I still feel tremendous shame about it almost a year later. We parted ways the next day after a long and awkward drive back to his place where I could get the rest of my stuff and leave. He told me his ex used to have panic attacks on trips with him and that our first trip was basically a test to see how I would do. He never apologized or took accountability for his behavior, though he did say he "probably needs therapy" but that he was "too busy for it." I'm still struggling to get over it, and questioning if I did something wrong. Had I kept my cool and not broke down in front of him, would he have been nicer?
This was not the first, or the last, incident where I let myself cry in front of a man I was romantically attached to. But after the same reaction from them each time (apathetic, cold, annoyed), I can't say it hasn't worn on me. I am naturally a very passionate and feeling person--the highs are very high and the lows can be very low--but I know my triggers and I am excellent at communicating my needs. I guess what I'm looking for here (besides a place to vent and share my experience) is how to find forgiveness in myself for being so vulnerable. I'm worried that my breakdowns were LV behavior, and therefore warranted these men to abandon me when I felt I needed them the most. If it happens again with a man in the future, I don't think I can very easily just bottle up my emotions if they are unexpectedly triggered. I have gone to therapy and basically just know a lot of self-soothing strategies, as well as how to communicate boundaries and needs when having a panic attack. The thing is, I've only ever had panic attacks around men. Men are the ones who cause my fight or flight to kick in hard. I'm not sure where to draw the line between feeling ashamed of myself and feeling ashamed for the men who did not feel any shame for themselves.
It sounds like you have a fantastic radar for abusers and narcs that manifests into physical symptoms. This is a gift. You're not the issue, you're reacting to their abuse. Your subconscious knows and that's why you only get triggered by men. When you feel a panic attack start to rise in your body, that's the signal to block and delete. This is like a gift from Lundy Bancroft
Yeah he literally took you on what should have been a romantic and fun trip, did something to upset you on purpose!!! then decided you failed his abusive little test.
You are internalizing this as your fault and that you need to change.
NO externalize that it was HIS fault and he was cruel to you on purpose with full intent to make you upset.
If a man's reaction to you crying is anything but a warm hug and comforting words, dump him. If it's his fault he would also apologise for making you cry. That guy sounds like a sociopath.
Wowww and I bet he does this with the next unsuspecting woman he dates too, if they don't sniff him out as a narcissist first. Then he wonders why he's alone as he keeps tEsTiNg his girlfriends.
What an irredeemable scrote. I am so sorry he did that to you. There's definitely nothing low value about YOU here in this story!
The fact that he was pulling tests on you, and treating you the same way as treat his ex, was abusive behaviour and therefore does not make him the “one” or a HVM. You have nothing to be ashamed of.
So he purposefully upset you to see how you'd fare?
Nope, yeet that man from your thoughts and any shame.
So at least two women had panic attacks when on trips with this scrote. I wonder what the common denominator in those two situations was? 🤔
It is not LV to be sensitive and show emotions. Your tears were reasonable reaction considering he was treating you like an ass for no reason. In some situations (e.g. professional environment) it's better to stay stoic and less emotional. However, if you are looking for a life partner, it is good to see how he responds to you crying (it will happen a lot during your lifetime), if he comforts you like an empathetic human being or is a cold arse. Also, some men will be cold because they think 'there is nothing here to cry for'. It is a huge red flag, that he will only comfort you if he personally deems your emotional response appropriate to the situation.
The scariest part by far: Have you ever looked in their eyes when this is happening?
I have been in a similar situation where I was crying my eyes out near the end of a very tumultuous several months with a NVM. He caused a scene at my post-graduation event, and I was trying to tAlK iT oUt. You mention this coldness and it is so true. When I say I looked in his eyes and saw NOTHING. Nada. Zilch. Zero. No emotion, no reaction, just cold indifference and boredom. Like he was watching paint dry or grass grow. Maybe mixed with a tinge of amusement? A sly smirk hinting through the facade. Like "wow, I can't believe I could get this reaction out of her."
It was crushing in that exact moment realizing how little he gave a shit about my sobbing. My first thought was not recognizing the person in front of me - and that scared the hell out of me. In the weeks that followed when I was reflecting on my boundaries in that situation, I was embarrassed by my reaction - I had been described by friends as not putting up with bullshit in the past, and I hated the reality I found myself in. That embarrassment has been replaced by disgust for him and grace for myself.
You say maybe he would have been "nicer." The catch is, NVM like him already made their mind up about the situation ten minutes before we even started crying. There are intrinsically unkind. Nothing we do assuages this fundamental flaw.
They don't feel anything, and the mask completely falls off when empathy is required to function as a normal human being. These men do not improve ever - they have no conception of anyone but themselves. They will continue to be miserable to any woman who has the misfortune to be in their radius. Be so happy for yourself that you feel deeply - you deserve someone who will cherish that vulnerability rather than weaponizing it.
He sounds like a narc/psycho. You deserve someone who will cherish you and make you feel loved.
You dodged a bullet he’s so fuckin emotionally abusive just what the hell?! How is he high value?? thats why his ex had panic attacks around him bc he’s predatory and shitty.
i’m glad you’re free from that dead weight.
"He told me his ex used to have panic attacks on trips with him and that our first trip..." etc
What a jerk he is!
Did it on purpose!
Ugh.
His behavior might be typical of men these days (due to their porn and manosphere conditioning and infantile development) but it isn't natural.
You are a sensitive, growing person. Much better off without him. Ugh! I feel for you. You did nothing wrong and you are nothing wrong.
That guy a confused, truncated little cad.
Yeah, if you were calm and collected and didn't give a shit, that would just make him madder and he'd do some other crazy thing like start hitting on other women blatantly and embarrasingly (Happened to me once with a scrote). Starting to realize you can't really "out smart" or "out strategize" these clowns into being non dramatic, abusers. They want the drama.
What an ass.
I completely agree with everyone that the guy was very bad news, let’s not mince words, he was emotionally abusing you. Good riddance! And I want to add that there is nothing wrong with crying. It’s a completely normal and natural reaction when we feel sad. It’s just like smiling, when we feel joy. In my view, it’s the patriarchy trying to control us again, grooming us to “smile more” and punishing and pathologizing any negative (yet completely justified) emotions that women have. If I feel sad and I’m in public or with somebody, I will cry if I want to. I don’t repress myself, I let stuff out and so it never builds up to a huge emotional outburst. There’s nothing wrong with my feelings and how they manifest, period.
My ex (who I later realized was in fact emotionally abusive AF) did something similar to this, we were walking outside (no issues at all), and I tried to put my arm around him and he went cold and huffy/puffy and started walking fast. I realized later that this was his way of making me feel like I did something wrong and have me beg to know “wHaT’s WrOnG” as an ego boost to him.
Lol if I man ever tried to pull that shit again, I would silently ditch/block/delete him on the spot.
Trust your instincts when a man makes you anxious. You were NOT wrong for having a panic attack and not keeping your cool. It was an understandable reaction to his neglect and making you feel unsafe. Let me tell you that safe and healthy partners don't make you feel this way. My boyfriend's ex used to suffer bad panic attacks as well and he was a little wary of them at first, because she would be very dependent on him and it was hard to be there for her 24/7 when he also had to work. But he never once made me feel bad for having anxiety despite this taxing experience in the past. Also, his presence calms me down and makes me less anxious. He always prioritizes my comfort. Everything I thought of as "my attachment issues" went away as soon as he demonstrated consistently safe behaviors. It's definitely a two way street here and we can't let men off the hook just because we have some exacerbated abandonment fears. Our partners play a huge part in how safe we feel in a relationship. Of course you always have to do your own internal work but my experience has been that it gets so much easier when you have someone who wants to be available to you.
I experienced something similar with a guy who suddenly appeared quite cold - and just as in your case, this happened after approx. two months, as well as when I was kinda stuck with him. I was staying over at his house for a weekend, which was 2 hours away by car from where I live, with no real public transport to use and no car. I even tried to communicate to him too, that I expect some physical intimacy, which gained me a lukewarm hover hand over my shoulder during a movie.
It's probably a deliberate thing on their part - to start with their abusive shit when we're in a vulnerable position. His coldness made me cry as well, although I tried to suppress it, because I just didn't want to waste emotions on him.
Looking back at the episode now, a year after, I'm honestly just super relieved I got rid of him. He was actually boring as fuck. But yeah, at the time, I was heart-broken.
You had panic attacks because he was emotionally abusing you. This man gave his ex panic attacks as well. He's a health hazard to women. These men are all bad for your emotional, mental and physical health. You are not wrong for having emotions. Trust your emotions. Would you be around family or friends who constantly gave you panic attacks? Some people are more sensitive and cry more easily. You can feel what you feel and cry but still have boundaries. For example in New York it would have been perfectly ok to go back to your hotel once you had calmed down, pack up and catch the first flight our of there. I had a very similar situation with my ex narc. We were in NYC and things were going fine. Two days into the trip, he randomly went into one of his narcissistic rages. I cried as I was more sensitive at the time too. Despite the tears streaming down my face, I immediately packed up my stuff took an Uber to the airport and caught the first flight back home. Having financial independence helps ALOT. Make sure you always have £uck off money 💵 if you ever go on a trip with a partner or friends. It's important to be able to leave if things go South. Your friend gave you bad advice to stay but perhaps it not her fault as society brainwashes women to cOmMuNiCaTe as if we don't already do that till we are blue in the face. Even in my pick me days, I would told my friends in your situation to leave immediately and even send them money/ bought a plane ticket/Uber ride to get the hell out of such an awful situation. Don't minimize what you feel. Your gut and panic attacks are telling you these men are bad for your emotional health and safety. The 3 HVM that I know validate their wives feelings and would never even think of behaving like this. They are emotionally available and kind to their wives which is the bare minimum. In the future communicate once. If it's ignored, leave, block and delete. This is not harsh. It will save you from the situations in the future.
I just wanted to quickly add a little thought I had while reading this... you said you were worried your breakdowns were LV and warranted these men leaving you, but if anything surely you being upset put them in the perfect position to be kind and caring to you... like isnt that just what you do as a decent person? They easily could have done that, but they didnt. If anything they did the opposite. Good riddance I say.