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How many times is this nonsense trotted out to excuse male behavior, sometimes in exquisitely subtle ways? (So called) Avoidant attachment men are like the new (so called) Asperger’s/Aspie Dudes trend the late great Nora Ephron called out so eloquently circa the aughts.
Nah, sis! Attachment theory is really not a very helpful analysis to perform on scrotes you hardly know! Stop trying to Untangle the Skein of his (so called) attachment fuckupedness, to borrow from Chump Lady’s witty parlance.
We in FDS are not psychiatrists and we need not be. Let’s worry about ourselves, not what’s going on in men’s creepy minds. Not what we think may have happened between him and his mom when he was between the ages of 6 months and 2.5 years or what have you. But, but, his childhood attachment wounds!! Nah, sis. Not your problem!These men are assholes doing assholery to women, like always.
For all of the foregoing reasons, Attachment theory is usually unhelpful bullshit when applied to men dating women. I know it's trendy and maybe kinda fun to analyze attachment styles. But this is a patriarchy. Notice it’s always wild takes like “HE’s AvOiDaNT atTacHmENT & so I gotta be more understanding of my own anxious attachment!” 😵💫 we see everywhere?
Instead of “hmmmm I really don’t like how I feel interacting with this dude, so I’m outta here.”
Is it that you have an “anxious attachment” like for real there, sis, or are you perhaps having a justifiable trauma response to his abusive pattern of crazymaking behaviors such as intermittent reinforcement, push pull, hot cold, gaslighting and the like? Have you been jerked around by too many entitled, disordered fuckwits, and their abuse has collectively taken a toll on you physically, psychologically, and emotionally?
Don’t get me wrong. Attachment theory has its place ::: in childrearing literature:::
But the tea is even (so called) securely attached dudes will manipulate women to get sex/ego strokes/money/housing and/or W.I.F.E. benefits (Washing. Intercourse. Feeding. Errands). Consider this: Spoiled Sons of # BoyMoms 🙄 are arguably often securely attached… and male entitled AF!
Let’s keep attachment theory in its place as we continue to level up. Don't ever accept anybody's mislabel of you as lacking in the attachment department (see also: you're probably not "borderline" or "codependent" or any of those common mislabels for women) if you know that shoe doesn't fit you. Focus on how YOU are feeling in reaction to the behaviors you encounter. Trust & love yourself, deeply. CENTER YOURSELF!
As a disclaimer, I am not a medical professional or a psychiatrist.
That being said, I think 90% of women's anxiety and depression (which often lands us in therapy or on medication) is a direct result of anti-social male behavior.
Men lie to us, use us, abuse us, manipulate us, neg us, and disrespect us from puberty onward all while telling us it's completely normal or we're just "picking the wrong men" or we "deserve" xyz because of something we did or didn't do.
Obviously, most of us are going to eventually internalize that negative messaging coming at us from every quarter, and it slowly but surely erodes our mental health and self-esteem.
I always think of one tweet I saw - perhaps from a screenshot on the original subreddit - that was a woman writing about her aunt, who said after she got divorced, "You know, I always thought I had anxiety. Turns out it was just your uncle."
He's avoidant. He's depressed. He's anxious. He's autistic. He's got ADHD. His mother didn't love him. His dad hit him. He never got the hamster he wanted. He's coping. He's got a small penis. He doesn't know how to communicate. It's toxic masculinity.
For fucks sake. How many of your problems allow you to be a worthless asshole? Why do men get every pass in the book?
And, do these excuses ever affect his friends family or coworkers? Just his wives/girlfriends/sexual partners? Ok. Let's call it like it is.
I think more women need to have solid boundaries about avoidant behavior. If he is breadcrumbing, being hot and cold, and doing intermittent reinforcement, do not justify or rationalize that behavior because it will do damage to you. I call such behavior a "weapon of mental destruction." I went through it myself and it caused me to have such intense anxiety like I had never known. I have very secure attachments in my life, but this one avoidant man turned me into a mess. You may not have anxious attachment at all. You are just being triggered by a man's shitty and confusing behavior. Your anxiety is often justified and it's your intuition telling you to run. Don't let Instagram therapists convince you otherwise. Avoidant men know exactly what they are doing, and our patriarchal world enables them while gaslighting women.
Accurate. And I mean no disrespect to people with actual autism and asbergers but I find it's used to excuse neglectful garbage behaviour from men (including my ex) far too often.
This is an important post.
A large percentage of the dating pool are so-called avoidants, men with commitment issues, men who don't want a partner, or have other issues that prevent them from having a successful long term relationship. They are in the dating pool for precisely that reason. The percentage increases the older the men get.
Dating apps are their primary hunting grounds, where they can find an easily accessible pool of women they can leech emotional energy off. They never have to address their issues as there are many women who have been conditioned to put men's needs above their own.
Most of the men you meet will have serious issues that make them untenable as a partner. Learn to listen to your intuition, rapidly spot red flags, and block and delete quickly.
Pop psychology: providing another excuse for men to be shitty human beings ever since the five love languages and "Physical touch being my love language"
100%. Throughout my life I thought I was “anxiously attached” until I worked on my vetting strategies (largely thanks to FDS, following from its early days) rather than yet another aspect of myself that could be improved ad infinitum, and my current relationship that’s coming close to a year with a decent human being that inspires me with his kindness, good work ethic and intelligence, made me realise that I am secure AF. That‘s because from the beginning he was very consistent, respectful and never for a minute allowed himself to come across as uninterested, wishy-washy or send any other dodgy vibes.
As women we are conditioned to rationalise away our very healthy gut instinct screaming at us and call it anxious attachment, codependence and what have you. Whenever I was anxious around a man, it was because I should have been. I should have just listened to my instinct sooner.
Thank you for posting this. I have been saying this to my female friends for a long time. It's a new twist on an old scheme: label the women and dismiss valid concerns.
Great post! And thank you for mentioning Chump Lady. One thing that she frequently says is that it doesn't matter if he's this or if he's that... what matters is: is this acceptable to YOU?
I love this thread so much. It's true. Women have so many words, labels, theories, and so on, when it comes to deciphering men's behaviors. It's just not needed and no longer warranted in 2023 lmao. It's time to put an end to it and just put men into two black and white categories: Either he's a good and beneficial part of your life that gives into you and your life and making it better overall, or he's a bad and a negative risk to your life that takes from you and making it worse overall. That's it. The end. No more shades of grey, no more explanations, no more "Maybe it's just his issues acting up again". We're done here.
[Oprah Voice] "You get a Best Answer! You get a Best Answer!"
I'm really enjoying this thread I just had to say something about that lmao
My last boyfriend was "avoidant attachment" and literally tried to turn it back around on me by calling me co-dependent. I will not be getting myself into a relationship like that again. Fucking waste
I love it. In general, I think it would benefit us if we all avoided using buzzwords and psychology jargon, and replaced those words with a description of whats actually happening. It's clearer and gets us closer to understand the issue and acting on it. For example ... Is he "avoidant attachment style", or is he distant and ignoring you? Stop psychoanalyzing, hes just ignoring you, he is not your problem, dump him. Is he "gaslighting" you, or is he just lying? Hes lying, thats all that matters here,dump him. Does he have past "trauma", or was he sad when his parents divorced? He was sad and now he's using it to manipulate you somehow, dont waste too much time trying to figure it out, just dump him. Frankly, and I dont mean this to be a douche, but by and large we're not using those words correctly anyway. So forget psychoanalyzing yourself and others using concepts and jargon you dont totally understand, and just say whats going on in plain English [or your language of choice].
I got the opposite a lot. I'm detached and "UnAVaiLaBle" because I don't like harassement and I have boundaries. Sure, dude, whatever it makes you cope 🤷♀️
And yes, attachment theory is meant to be better parents and raise better children, not keep together incompatible couples.
As a diagnosed autistic woman, I say, double standards apply here. Make allowances for autistic women, make none for autistic men. We’re the ones trying, they’re the ones using disability as an excuse.
Yeah me ex was like that. ASpeRgErs MayBe and AuTiSm and DepResSed. But not autistic and depressed enough to not go out drinking with his scrote friends, talking nonstop about the hot woman from work he wanted to fuck, playing video games all day and so on. And of course: babbling passionately about all his "hobbies" (collecting and buying shit online). They are not "avoiders". They are entitled assholes who don't want to commit - because commitment means providing and they are lazy ass toddlers who do not want to grow up and behave like real adults.
I went on a date with a colleague who owned a concrete company who used to work for my company. He told me he was buying a private jet and would start coming up from DC to NYC to take me out. He requested I read some book about attachment styles, which I did, and then instead of coming up to NYC to take me out, he offered me a job in DC. I told him there was no way I'd move back to the DMV after living there for 9 years without having even one boyfriend. And that was the end of it. He'd told me he was an avoidant, that he hadn't married the mother of his daughter, and he was "glad to escape" his 5 year marriage. Stay away from mentally ill men. It doesn't matter how many books are written on why they are assholes, all that matters is that they're assholes who are incapable pf love. Do men read books about my neck and jaw injuries trying to understand how I feel? 🤣 Do they care why we feel bad about anything? Of course, not. So just block, delete, next these guys. This guy was hoping to make me his slave/mule and to have me watching him leave the office to meet the girl he really wants whilst I stayed there working to make him richer. No way, Jose.
Yes!!! 💯. I came across the attachment when trying to look for answers, probably for how I was feeling while dating some LVM. I convinced myself it was my anxious attachment and I was growing by not responding in “protest” behavior. Hot/cold and all of the “avoidant” behaviors will likely make almost anyone anxious. My new promise to myself- I don’t care if it’s avoidant or whatever term is used, I’m sure there will be more. If he is acting LV, he is LV. I’m not going to Nancy Drew it. 1st 🚩flag 🙅♀️
Bravo!
Excellent post.
And I am glad you added...
"Don’t get me wrong. Attachment theory has its place ::: in childrearing literature::"
Exactly!